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Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
Posted: July 07 2014 at 15:43
Guldbamsen wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
I wish Wilson would record another Porcupine Tree album. I didn't like The Incident much at all. One problem I have with Porcupine Tree is the lack of a real soloist. Wilson is a capable guitarist, but he's just not in the realm of Hackett, Gilmour, Rothery, Howe, etc.
I think Wilson is a fantastic psych guitarist, and I don't think PT were ever in need of a great soloist. They were not about that - even if you find some pretty cool guitar ones on Dark Matter and Shesmovedon and well a lot of other ones now that I think about it
I actually think he's more skilled than Gilmour, but he may lack the emotional depth (then again who has Gilmour's feel?).
We'll just agree to disagree here.
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
The problem with The Incident was purely aesthetical for me. I'm not a musican (except maybe some xylophone in the kindergarten) so I don't focus on the technical side of the tracks, I've listened to the album now and then and for a long time it just seemed... boring. I couldn't find anything interesting to stick with, no tune no lyric line, nothing. It felt like it didn't stand out and I was dissapointed because that was never the case with earlier PT albums. And then one day I woke up with 'Blind House' stuck in my head, so I gave it one more try, hit shuffle and guess what. So I'm thinking maybe he went too far with the idea of an album as one piece of music? Instead of a sense of integrity I got the sense of thesameness.
That being said I grew to like The Incident very much, but it still remains my least favourite PT album. As for Fear Of A Blank Planet, it had a stronger idea behind it and that gave it more emotional impact. I mean, dude, Anesthetize!
I liked what the other guys brought into PT, and am also hoping for them to get back together but as recommended by SW, I don't hold my breath. He's now embracing his new career path as a 'music director', going back to being a member of a democratic band seems like a step back to him and I guess I can understand that. I wish one day he'll stop thinking of it as a regress but even I can't find any reasons in my head apart from sentimental ones
I'm interested in this idea that his solo music is less democratic in its process compared to PT. How true is that? Any solid proof? My thinking was that he wanted other musicians to contribute more to his music whereas PT was an old idea getting stale. If other members were contributing more than doesn't that suggest PT was never quite happening as a band in the first place because so many prefer the earlier albums when supposedly SW had an iron like grip on the artistic direction. His 3 solo albums suggest much great diversity than can come from just one guy making it all happen.
That's something I heard him say in numerous interviews. Funny how he actually has a rehearsed answer for all the questions about another PT album, he always says the same thing, with the same dramatic pause and a condescending smile at the end :) all of his 3 solo albums are written totally solo, he formed the current band when he was looking for someone to tour GFD with and liked the guys so much he wrote The Raven with them in mind. He takes much pride in the fact that he does no longer listen to other people (sometimes against his better judgement, as implied) and just does what he feels like doing.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28064
Posted: July 08 2014 at 00:41
adenauer wrote:
SteveG wrote:
richardh wrote:
adenauer wrote:
The problem with The Incident was purely aesthetical for me. I'm not a musican (except maybe some xylophone in the kindergarten) so I don't focus on the technical side of the tracks, I've listened to the album now and then and for a long time it just seemed... boring. I couldn't find anything interesting to stick with, no tune no lyric line, nothing. It felt like it didn't stand out and I was dissapointed because that was never the case with earlier PT albums. And then one day I woke up with 'Blind House' stuck in my head, so I gave it one more try, hit shuffle and guess what. So I'm thinking maybe he went too far with the idea of an album as one piece of music? Instead of a sense of integrity I got the sense of thesameness.
That being said I grew to like The Incident very much, but it still remains my least favourite PT album. As for Fear Of A Blank Planet, it had a stronger idea behind it and that gave it more emotional impact. I mean, dude, Anesthetize!
I liked what the other guys brought into PT, and am also hoping for them to get back together but as recommended by SW, I don't hold my breath. He's now embracing his new career path as a 'music director', going back to being a member of a democratic band seems like a step back to him and I guess I can understand that. I wish one day he'll stop thinking of it as a regress but even I can't find any reasons in my head apart from sentimental ones
I'm interested in this idea that his solo music is less democratic in its process compared to PT. How true is that? Any solid proof? My thinking was that he wanted other musicians to contribute more to his music whereas PT was an old idea getting stale. If other members were contributing more than doesn't that suggest PT was never quite happening as a band in the first place because so many prefer the earlier albums when supposedly SW had an iron like grip on the artistic direction. His 3 solo albums suggest much great diversity than can come from just one guy making it all happen.
That's something I heard him say in numerous interviews. Funny how he actually has a rehearsed answer for all the questions about another PT album, he always says the same thing, with the same dramatic pause and a condescending smile at the end :) all of his 3 solo albums are written totally solo, he formed the current band when he was looking for someone to tour GFD with and liked the guys so much he wrote The Raven with them in mind. He takes much pride in the fact that he does no longer listen to other people (sometimes against his better judgement, as implied) and just does what he feels like doing.
We can only go round in endless circles with this but i think my point was more -what makes you think that Porcupine Tree was a democracy and also if The Incident was not that good or as good as earlier albums then presumably the 'open to all ideas' approach was obviously failing (IMO)
Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: July 08 2014 at 04:34
Guldbamsen wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
I wish Wilson would record another Porcupine Tree album. I didn't like The Incident much at all. One problem I have with Porcupine Tree is the lack of a real soloist. Wilson is a capable guitarist, but he's just not in the realm of Hackett, Gilmour, Rothery, Howe, etc.
I think Wilson is a fantastic psych guitarist, and I don't think PT were ever in need of a great soloist. They were not about that - even if you find some pretty cool guitar ones on Dark Matter and Shesmovedon and well a lot of other ones now that I think about it
I actually think he's more skilled than Gilmour, but he may lack the emotional depth (then again who has Gilmour's feel?).
Wilson WAS a fantastic psych guitarist during those early Delirium era days of Porcupine Tree (and I know you dug them, Dave!), an instantly recognizable sound with plenty of feeling and variety....it's just that as he changed his mind on the direction of Porcupine Tree, especially once the `Stupid Dream/Lightblub Sun' period kicked in, suddenly soloing and extended instrumental passages became much less of a priority for him. He also then seemed more determined to tear down his past guitar sound and cover everything in fuzz, distortion, noise and feedback, a real reaction against his earlier work....
What a shame (as much as I still enjoy the later PT discs and his solo work)...just listening to his gentle guitar licks during something like `Cloud Zero' off `Staircase Infinities' is magical to me!
The problem with The Incident was purely aesthetical for me. I'm not a musican (except maybe some xylophone in the kindergarten) so I don't focus on the technical side of the tracks, I've listened to the album now and then and for a long time it just seemed... boring. I couldn't find anything interesting to stick with, no tune no lyric line, nothing. It felt like it didn't stand out and I was dissapointed because that was never the case with earlier PT albums. And then one day I woke up with 'Blind House' stuck in my head, so I gave it one more try, hit shuffle and guess what. So I'm thinking maybe he went too far with the idea of an album as one piece of music? Instead of a sense of integrity I got the sense of thesameness.
That being said I grew to like The Incident very much, but it still remains my least favourite PT album. As for Fear Of A Blank Planet, it had a stronger idea behind it and that gave it more emotional impact. I mean, dude, Anesthetize!
I liked what the other guys brought into PT, and am also hoping for them to get back together but as recommended by SW, I don't hold my breath. He's now embracing his new career path as a 'music director', going back to being a member of a democratic band seems like a step back to him and I guess I can understand that. I wish one day he'll stop thinking of it as a regress but even I can't find any reasons in my head apart from sentimental ones
I'm interested in this idea that his solo music is less democratic in its process compared to PT. How true is that? Any solid proof? My thinking was that he wanted other musicians to contribute more to his music whereas PT was an old idea getting stale. If other members were contributing more than doesn't that suggest PT was never quite happening as a band in the first place because so many prefer the earlier albums when supposedly SW had an iron like grip on the artistic direction. His 3 solo albums suggest much great diversity than can come from just one guy making it all happen.
That's something I heard him say in numerous interviews. Funny how he actually has a rehearsed answer for all the questions about another PT album, he always says the same thing, with the same dramatic pause and a condescending smile at the end :) all of his 3 solo albums are written totally solo, he formed the current band when he was looking for someone to tour GFD with and liked the guys so much he wrote The Raven with them in mind. He takes much pride in the fact that he does no longer listen to other people (sometimes against his better judgement, as implied) and just does what he feels like doing.
We can only go round in endless circles with this but i think my point was more -what makes you think that Porcupine Tree was a democracy and also if The Incident was not that good or as good as earlier albums then presumably the 'open to all ideas' approach was obviously failing (IMO)
My bad, sorry :) What makes me think that way is - again - his own words. Maybe he understands 'democracy in a band' differently than most people do, or maybe PT was actually more of a group project in the later years, than we thought? Constantly making new albums while being involved in, what seems to be every other project in the world, I could understand him welcoming others into the process of decision-making. We shall never know. And I agree that something must have been failing in that system but not from the very beginning.
Now I'm totally thinking he let others do more work around PT so he had time for his little 'side activities' - so much for democracy, that's just neglect. Do I sound like I don't appreciate the other PT members? GOD I'M SO CONFUSED
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
Posted: July 08 2014 at 09:30
adenauer wrote:
richardh wrote:
adenauer wrote:
SteveG wrote:
richardh wrote:
adenauer wrote:
The problem with The Incident was purely aesthetical for me. I'm not a musican (except maybe some xylophone in the kindergarten) so I don't focus on the technical side of the tracks, I've listened to the album now and then and for a long time it just seemed... boring. I couldn't find anything interesting to stick with, no tune no lyric line, nothing. It felt like it didn't stand out and I was dissapointed because that was never the case with earlier PT albums. And then one day I woke up with 'Blind House' stuck in my head, so I gave it one more try, hit shuffle and guess what. So I'm thinking maybe he went too far with the idea of an album as one piece of music? Instead of a sense of integrity I got the sense of thesameness.
That being said I grew to like The Incident very much, but it still remains my least favourite PT album. As for Fear Of A Blank Planet, it had a stronger idea behind it and that gave it more emotional impact. I mean, dude, Anesthetize!
I liked what the other guys brought into PT, and am also hoping for them to get back together but as recommended by SW, I don't hold my breath. He's now embracing his new career path as a 'music director', going back to being a member of a democratic band seems like a step back to him and I guess I can understand that. I wish one day he'll stop thinking of it as a regress but even I can't find any reasons in my head apart from sentimental ones
I'm interested in this idea that his solo music is less democratic in its process compared to PT. How true is that? Any solid proof? My thinking was that he wanted other musicians to contribute more to his music whereas PT was an old idea getting stale. If other members were contributing more than doesn't that suggest PT was never quite happening as a band in the first place because so many prefer the earlier albums when supposedly SW had an iron like grip on the artistic direction. His 3 solo albums suggest much great diversity than can come from just one guy making it all happen.
That's something I heard him say in numerous interviews. Funny how he actually has a rehearsed answer for all the questions about another PT album, he always says the same thing, with the same dramatic pause and a condescending smile at the end :) all of his 3 solo albums are written totally solo, he formed the current band when he was looking for someone to tour GFD with and liked the guys so much he wrote The Raven with them in mind. He takes much pride in the fact that he does no longer listen to other people (sometimes against his better judgement, as implied) and just does what he feels like doing.
We can only go round in endless circles with this but i think my point was more -what makes you think that Porcupine Tree was a democracy and also if The Incident was not that good or as good as earlier albums then presumably the 'open to all ideas' approach was obviously failing (IMO)
My bad, sorry :) What makes me think that way is - again - his own words. Maybe he understands 'democracy in a band' differently than most people do, or maybe PT was actually more of a group project in the later years, than we thought? Constantly making new albums while being involved in, what seems to be every other project in the world, I could understand him welcoming others into the process of decision-making. We shall never know. And I agree that something must have been failing in that system but not from the very beginning.
Now I'm totally thinking he let others do more work around PT so he had time for his little 'side activities' - so much for democracy, that's just neglect. Do I sound like I don't appreciate the other PT members? GOD I'M SO CONFUSED
The answer to your question Richard is no. PT was not a truly democratic band. However, someone like Gavin Harrison that had been around awile and was renown for his drumming certainly had a lot of input into the band's sound and this is something that Wilson may have wanted to free himself from. I hope this helps.
Joined: June 22 2014
Location: NorCal
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Posted: September 01 2014 at 14:09
I cannot get enough of Raven lately, been playing it over and over. This is truly Steven's masterpiece, there is not a note out of place. It's right up there with other giants of the genre in my book.
I think Wilson fancies himself an eclectic, but it's clear that he's most inspired when making reasonably recognizable prog rock. The one thing that's constant across all his work, though, is a sense of melancholy, and I'm surprised it's not mentioned more often. It is theoretically impossible to be cheered-up by a listen to a Wilson album, which must be something that serves to limit his appeal.
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17847
Posted: September 01 2014 at 15:15
^ That can be said of a lot of progressive rock music, its far from "happy, cheerful" music. Very cerebral and yes melancholy and at times depressing....
Not something the main stream audience wants to hear. You watch a prog rock concert on DVD or cable and the audience is usually calm.....Watch an Iron Maiden concert and the crowd is screaming from the first note till the last encore....I know I do!
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
Posted: October 05 2014 at 06:43
The parts around 3:00 and 5:00-end sound spectacular (especially the latter with whoever that female singer is). I'm not sure what to think of the very poppy vocals around 4:10
Joined: September 29 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 179
Posted: March 15 2015 at 11:27
Well now that Hand. Cannot. Erase has been out long enough for people to make their mind up on the album it would be nice to revive this thread. HCE seems like its going to be his most financially successful record, beating even The Raven. https://twitter.com/StevenWilsonHQ/status/576792193769304064/photo/1
Not only that but this new album is getting more praise from the official music critics than the Raven. Virtually every site on the entire internet is giving it 4-5 stars with very very few giving it 3. The album is doing well here too which is somewhat surprising considering its not pure Prog like The Raven was and it does have a fair amount of Pop. While I think The Raven was SW's best album ever HCE has a great blend of classic and modern Prog along with other pop and electronic influences. This has helped people who thought The Raven as a rip-off of 70s Prog (which it isn't IMO) to enjoy the new album more.
It looks like the SW train is only gaining in speed and its now making a serious impact on mainstream. When you start out selling well established pop bands like Maroon 5 then you know you are doing well. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/music/694244/ref=sr_bs_1
So do you guys think his success with HCE is well deserved? And do you think its worth the near universal "masterpiece" status that it has been getting from all but the SW haters (who has given it 3). I think the praise is deserved although I do still love The Raven and FOABP more. And how would we feel if the title track became a radio hit?
Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
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Points: 8642
Posted: March 15 2015 at 11:52
Past the one-two punch of the opening sequence, things get boring, samey, and uninspired right quick. It's missing the kick that all his great works have. That even several of the tracks on The Incident have. If the three star reviewers are right in that there are later high points, then the sloggy nature of most of the album subverts that.
The praise and sales are hardly deserved. He's lucky I'm still considering seeing one of his Manhattan shows this May. At this point, it's the older material he's promising that's drawing me in, nothing more.
I went to see Mr Wilson on Friday 13 March 2015 in Cardiff. No spoilers. I managed to miss his last three solo tours due to work commitments but I was determined not to miss this. The show was excellent. The sound was superb; the video was immersive if not a little too distracting from time to time. Having only had the Hand. Cannot. Erase for less than two weeks I really haven't had the time to fully immerse myself into the music, but this wasn't necessary for the show.
A lot has been said about SW being the saviour of prog, the beacon, the MVP of prog, etc. I don't know about that. His remixes of other people's work has been impressive in terms of the scale but in most cases he was already polishing cut diamonds (The Power and The Glory, Relayer etc) so what could he add apart from some clever 21st century technology enabled separation. The sheer scale of his work with Porcupine Tree, No-Man, Blackfield, IEM, Bass Communion (which doesn't float my boat) as well as solo is indicative of a man who loves his work. You would think quality would suffer with the scale of his output but not at all. If anything, each solo record is better than the previous release. Up until The Incident, the same could be said for Porcupine Tree. I would like to see a Porcupine Tree reunion but if it doesn't happen and he continues to add PT songs to his live shows, then frankly I will be a happy bunny.
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
Posted: March 15 2015 at 15:53
Svetonio wrote:
infocat wrote:
Have not heard it yet.
Nothing special really. Routine is a great tune, though. And production is great, of course.
be careful.. you are talking about the soon to be crowned PA's 2015 album of the year. It is Steve Wilson.. it doesn't have to be special.. it never has been. I'd bet my paycheck he could do a cover album of Willie Nelson tunes and prog fan would lap it up and ask for a joint and a lone star afterward.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: March 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2447
Posted: March 15 2015 at 16:17
I say it's a damn fine album. Certainly nothing new from Wilson, but it's almost like he's come full circle back to Ptree in some ways. It's as slick as everything else he's done, so I can understand that may turn some people off......and it's certainly far from groundbreaking.......but it sounds excellent to me despite all that (or maybe because of it?). This is what I'm hearing anyway.
I've never listened to Wilson do any covers, so I wouldn't have the least bit of interest in him doing Willie Nelson tunes. If he did them WITH Willie, I might check it out just out of sheer morbid curiosity
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Guldbamsen wrote:
