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Topic ClosedNeil Peart down on band's 70s work

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2014 at 12:31
I loved his secret hats myself.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2014 at 13:34
With a discography so large, one has to think the band members become "fans" of their own collection and have opinions, as we do.
As far as I am concerned he can diss his own work all he wants, the fact that they do not play much of the pre PW material live says a lot, seems like a quick discussion when they are planning a set list..
On the Snakes & Arrows Tour they did bust out Natural Science.....that was fun.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2014 at 14:18
In his defense, I feel the same way about my listening. Rush was a stepping stone that I rarely listen to on purpose anymore. But I have to feel nostalgic about the "childhood drawings on the refrigerator" phase and just cringe with embarrassment about the following "teenage slut" years and the "blend into the crowd because nobody really cares who we are anymore" years.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2014 at 14:39
What
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2014 at 17:43
My favourite Rush era is from 2112 up to signals. 2112 is the first album of theirs I bought and side one still resonates with me. Lost interest with anything after signals until Clockwork Angels which I like a lot. The early years were not too polished and had pizazz! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2014 at 13:09

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:


...
"Those were the growing years. I often equate that to children's drawings on the refrigerator that hang around too long, you know?

I really wish they would just go away.  I think we really started....wow, given my druthers, I would make our first album "Moving Pictures."  I can't think of a single reason not to do that!"
...

Roger Waters has also said something similar about a lot of Pink Floyd's early material.

I, personally, (not that you have to care or pay attention!) do not think that we do not learn something from the young days or not. It seems pretty hip and interesting that when these folks get big and rich, they can say that they were not that good and that it was overblown.

Even Roger has said that AHM was total crap. Probably because he doesn't want to five Ron Geesin any money at all for some things they did when they were ripped, drunk, or simply playing around with microphones up their a$$es and then call it "Our Song".

There is something that one learns from all this, and in the end, Roger and PF learned how to play with sound effects and eventually created the ne plus ultra of all sound effects, by creating a story around it, and calling it The Wall, on top of it, because behind it, is a whole other story. Roger would know that intimately, but why would he not admit to it?

It is, in my book, a bit of self-righteous attitudes and a lot of the rock fame BS thing, that hurts and makes these comments appear so bad and sometimes stupid. In the end, it is hurting one's own creative juices, because it is like saying you don't like a piece of yourself, and it is crap, but it IS a part of who you are. You denying that is stupid, and eventually will hurt your creativity more than anything else out there.

I just think that this is more about the "rock press" and their 4 minute song, than anything else. It is cool for all these tune places to trash that stuff and mis-quote musicians left and right, because it supports their business model, which in turn gives the bands more money!

You have to stick with the art of it all, not always the money, and this is one of the reasons why I have not enjoyed RUSH for almost 20 years! It died a long time ago, and it's talent diluted to nothingness, and an overblown design of lyrics, that are supposed to be meaningful! And hearing Neil say that, makes me feel like I was right to ignore them all this time! They don't believe in their own art any more anyway. They are too rich, fat and famous, to have to tell you that all of their work is important and is a part of who you are!

But some folks don't believe it all as a pat of their lives. It's just another song, and it ain't their favorite. And THAT my friends, is not even a "progressive" thought, so why would you think this band is? It ain't any more.

Edited by moshkito - March 01 2014 at 13:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2014 at 13:38
Moshkito, your comments are really harsh, inappropriate and reductive, but that was at least passionate!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2014 at 16:58
Rush have been crap for the last 20 years. They were pretty average for the 10 years before that. Signals was their last stong album. Peart had a crappy snare sound after that. I reckon he needs a wake up call. Hemispheres is their best with Signals. Bit the 1974-77 period wasn't much better than the 83-91 period.

Edited by dr prog - March 01 2014 at 17:02
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2014 at 20:13
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Rush have been crap for the last 20 years. They were pretty average for the 10 years before that. Signals was their last stong album. Peart had a crappy snare sound after that. I reckon he needs a wake up call. Hemispheres is their best with Signals. Bit the 1974-77 period wasn't much better than the 83-91 period.


Snare sounds aside (I agree the drums and Geddy's bass sound best on Signals), do you really think albums like Grace Under Pressure, Counterparts, Vapor Trails and Clockwork Angels are "crap"?

Edited by verslibre - March 01 2014 at 20:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2014 at 01:16
Rush have been a hard rock band for about 20 years which doesn't go down well here obviously. I think of them now as a decent hard rock band not a prog band. Vapor Trails was great when I saw Rush live and stands up against their more vaunted material. The last 3 albums are good but fail on prog credentials.I think they have settled into old age but any band that still tours and puts out new albums regularly deserves respect imo.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2014 at 08:28
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Rush have been a hard rock band for about 20 years which doesn't go down well here obviously. I think of them now as a decent hard rock band not a prog band. Vapor Trails was great when I saw Rush live and stands up against their more vaunted material. The last 3 albums are good but fail on prog credentials.I think they have settled into old age but any band that still tours and puts out new albums regularly deserves respect imo.


agree with richard---when they were young they loved Yes and Lee loved Squire and they pointed to Relayer as their fav album---but really their music is hard rock--with very structured chorus verse arrangements.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2014 at 08:43
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

Moshkito, your comments are really harsh, inappropriate and reductive, but that was at least passionate!
 
I'm a writer!
 
I know what I say and write most of the time, and can explain it to you, if you are ever interested.
 
But denying my experience when I was 15, or 20, or 30, despite it being hard with no English, is difficult to do, and it became a part of my learning.
 
What you don't understand and see, or have any idea about, is that our house in Portugal and Brazil was full of famous literatii and folks that my dad translated, and they were much bigger and better known than RUSH will EVER be. But you are defending your very favorite rock song, or band! THAT will pass and is a notorious youthful trademark!
 
I can appreciate great music and excellent work as well as anyone else, but you are trying to assimilate RUSH with the giants in the arts, and it might in fame and fortune during its time, but it won't afterwards! This, you do not want to see or believe when that time comes! And like Dean says, it's just pop music!
 
There is a side to "harsh" that you don't get, and will never EVER appreciate or read or discuss. It is having the dad having a gun pulled to his children's heads in order to shut him up and tell him to stop writing freedom poetry and such! Fascism, and corruption, is a bigger bandit and a much rougher enemy, but you don't see that!
 
It's ok to think that Harry Potter is mysticism ... but don't go screaming when it doesn't work! That is my problem with RUSH. It's nice ... so what?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2014 at 15:51
Ironic considering it was those albums (2112 to Moving Pictures) that made them legendary. Those are the albums people are still passionate about, the albums that new generations keep discovering.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2014 at 16:02
Even the artists' opinions of their own work has no bearing on whether or not I enjoy it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2014 at 16:34
Thank god Peart doesn't own a time machine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2014 at 01:53
Originally posted by Dorsalia Dorsalia wrote:

Ironic considering it was those albums (2112 to Moving Pictures) that made them legendary. Those are the albums people are still passionate about, the albums that new generations keep discovering.

reminds me of when Asia were interviewed on the BBC by legendary DJ Tommy Vance. That was about 1982 and he put a question framed exactly that way. John Wetton and Steve Howe tried to answer it but didn't give a a very convincing answer. Trying to disregard your past when the fans are so passionate it usually is a bad idea  BUT in Rush's case they managed to reinvent themselves and retain creative integrity. Very few had pulled that off so Rush are in a privileged position. I suppose the question is whether Peart is abusing this privilege considering that Rush would not be here probably if 2112 hadn't taken off the way it did.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2014 at 02:13
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

ic!
 
There is a side to "harsh" that you don't get, and will never EVER appreciate or read or discuss. It is having the dad having a gun pulled to his children's heads in order to shut him up and tell him to stop writing freedom poetry and such! Fascism, and corruption, is a bigger bandit and a much rougher enemy, but you don't see that!


This is why, lyrically The Trees still has a resonance to me lyrically. It's an interesting allegory, akin to Orwell's 1984 and Toffler's Future Shock (who wrote the music of the futura, er, future... would be chiefly percussive.....  The Trees had a resonance beyond a mere pop lyric (and speaks more volumes than anything off Clockwork Angels - for me anyway. This is one album that is not clicking with me.

Heh, one album I never bought was Vapour Trails. All that latter day maturity and this album had such a bad reputation sonically i just never got it. S'pose I should now it's ... okay?

Rush had a nice hard rock debut, restarted with the longer material, got a bit tangled progressing concepts with Caress of Steel, got it right with their Tarkus, 2112 and then took it to the limit with Cygnus. Oh well, I like most but AFTK, H, 2112, Permanent Waves, GUP (superb drumming) and Counterparts are terrific. I even got to liking Signals in recent years.

Then came the new beginnings - that awesome classic Permanent Waves. The inter-development of harmonies area (a bit like Genesis); instead of placing the solos as easily identifiable entities they put them as part of the arrangements allowing a platform for ideas to develop more interestingly. Especially since it's only pop music. Unhappy

I suppose when he says he's wish they'd go away... well wishing won't make it happen. ;) But honesty is valued...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2014 at 07:36
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

... development of harmonies area (a bit like Genesis); instead of placing the solos as easily identifiable entities they put them as part of the arrangements allowing a platform for ideas to develop more interestingly. Especially since it's only pop music. Unhappy

I suppose when he says he's wish they'd go away... well wishing won't make it happen. ;) But honesty is valued...
 
I do not think that some people ever end up appreciating the riches they got, and all they can do after 40 or 50 years is sit down and write a 4 minute song with 3 sets of lines that supposedly mean something or other, and you are supposed to buy it because you are a nobody that can't tell the difference!
 
Nothing against Roger, but David Gilmour (or Rush) is in the same boat, and so are many well know, rich stars out there, and probably the only one that won't concede, and we think he's a jerk because of it, is Robert Fripp! Or even Bryan Eno, but we like to say that he's just playing with knobs and not music!
 
Life for them, at that level, is about trying to find some meaning that escapes them, and they have so many people around them saying so many things that it is difficult to tell what is what and who is true and who is false. Even John Lennon said that in an interview a few months before he was taken away!
 
The "development of harmonies" was there, wayyyyy before Neil Peart and Rush! Theirs could be considered 2nd rate harmonies compared to so many of the English folk-rock bands, for example!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2014 at 18:38
OK, put me down for liking (obviously in general) Hemispheres  through Presto.   Pretty much liked them all.

Yes, I liked 2112 in the day - but I can see Peart's point of view with that album and the earlier ones.  Their writing really blossomed with Hemispheres in my opinion.   Then took off from there.  

And starting with Roll the Bones, I was scraping for a couple cuts that I liked.

PS - I did like Clockwork Angels better than anything since Presto - which may not be saying much personally.  But I did like it somewhat.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2014 at 23:53
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:


Heh, one album I never bought was Vapour Trails. All that latter day maturity and this album had such a bad reputation sonically i just never got it. S'pose I should now it's ... okay?


I think so, especially if you enjoyed any of their other releases after Test for Echo. They remixed it and released that version last year, and they did wonders with the sound. Some prefer the original 'raw' version, but I believe the vast majority appreciated the remix. Neil Peart had no part in the remix though, as he didn't want to revisit the album.


Edited by Metalmarsh89 - March 04 2014 at 23:53
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