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richardh 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 28070
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 Posted: June 25 2010 at 01:46 |
 rod65 wrote:
Perhaps I'm being a little low-brow here in bringing in the bassist for a band classified as Proto-Prog, but what about John Entwistle? His playing on Quadrophenia was phenomenal, and any time I saw The Who live, there were times when I could barely see his fingers, they were moving so fast. Moreover, he was using his base as a lead instrument as early as the mid-60s. |
Absolutely although I would also like to mention ,having looked at your avatar, that John Jowitt (Arena,Frost and IQ) is a great bassist!
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: June 25 2010 at 02:13 |
Hmm...just my thoughts on some names mentioned here, lost track of this thread for sometime. Geddy Lee is obviously one of the very influential bassists for modern prog, especially prog metal. And he is generally widely acclaimed too, sometimes a bit in excess of his achievements (which is a given with hugely popular bands). Camp played great lead bass but I really dislike those bass solos he plays in live performances of Ashes are burning, very lacking in discipline and - dare I say it - show offy. I like Trewavas but can't say his style is much removed from Lee...a similar, rock-ish tone. Marillion has more Rush influences than is generally mentioned, especially evident on He Knows You Know. Entwistle is a brilliant bassist of course.  It's a curious thing about The Who that they are hugely popular but somewhere don't seem to get as much acclaim as they should. Or is my recent listen of Quadrophenia making me sound fanboyish?  Jazz fusion has so many monsters...Pastorius, Clarke, Jones... Hmm...has Ray Shulman been mentioned, for crying out loud?  I think that seals the issue for me, leave alone Top, it's a bit difficult to see the case for Lake not getting the credit he deserves when someone like Shulman is a lot less acclaimed. Hopper, Sinclair are amazing too...Canterbury as such actually, maybe because of the ties it shares with jazz fusion.
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rod65
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 248
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Posted: June 27 2010 at 06:47 |
richardh wrote:
rod65 wrote:
Perhaps I'm being a little low-brow here in bringing in the bassist for a band classified as Proto-Prog, but what about John Entwistle? His playing on Quadrophenia was phenomenal, and any time I saw The Who live, there were times when I could barely see his fingers, they were moving so fast. Moreover, he was using his base as a lead instrument as early as the mid-60s. |
Absolutely although I would also like to mention ,having looked at your avatar, that John Jowitt (Arena,Frost and IQ) is a great bassist! |
Indeed he is, and I should have thought to mention him as well. As you point out, he is an obvious choice.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17527
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Posted: June 28 2010 at 18:49 |
topographicbroadways wrote:
first off
Yes I Know Geddy Lee
Second Off
Yes I know Chris Squire
... |
Greg Lake had the biggest ego of them all. I don't think he was that good a bass player, but he was a very good and expressive personality with lyrics in his mouth. He knew how to express them. I don't think that you listen to "The Endless Enigma" for Greg's bass ... but you do for the beautiful design in instrumentation and lyrics!
Chirs nowadays doesn't even look nice. He's doing a really good Edgar Froese/Beethoven imitation and sometimes sounds like it! I guess that anger and disappointment is a hard thing to maintain with! I think there was some good stuff in the early days and he helped nail the bass down as important, but then, that's like saying that Paul McCartney was not doing anything worthwhile in the last 3 or 4 Beatles albums and showing people that music could also be done with a bass within a rock band context. And it was excellent music and as good as most of the classical over hyped stuff out there!
Geddy Lee ... I think he is a better singer and writer than he is a player. I really would like to see Rush bring along a keyboard player one day so it can free him up to have some fun ... I don't see how he can get any better and improve if he's doing everything all the time ... it's insane, somewhat megalomaniac and silly. I also think that it is making the band highly repetitive and not original anymore!
There are a lot better bass players out there, and Lothar Meid comes to mind in Amon Duul 2, in some quite different and difficult music, for which he also sang and wrote and never repeated himself.
Dave Pegg ... some of his work with Richard Thompson (specially 1 Side Live) is insanely well done and something that you can not teach. That simple. And it is progressive because it is not conventional and it bends and shapes and adds expression to the music ... but not sure that is as important here compared to the favored "gods".
Hugh Hopper ... Canterbury stuff ... enough said.
Don Schiff ... Rocket Scientists and solo. Probably the best bass player out there second to none.
MIke Howlett ... Gong and more ... probably one of the most technical players out there. Always simple, but deadly on timing, mood and expression, and that is a combination that is very difficult to teach and express on an instrument. Perhaps no one deserves his honorary chaimanship of a Musical School in Australia more than he does ... and few people know music and understand it as well as he does! Too many bass players rely on effects or this and that ... Mike is ... just there and more!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8618
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Posted: June 28 2010 at 20:14 |
moshkito wrote:
topographicbroadways wrote:
first off
Yes I Know Geddy Lee
Second Off
Yes I know Chris Squire
... |
Greg Lake had the biggest ego of them all. I don't think he was that good a bass player, but he was a very good and expressive personality with lyrics in his mouth. He knew how to express them. I don't think that you listen to "The Endless Enigma" for Greg's bass ... but you do for the beautiful design in instrumentation and lyrics!
Chirs nowadays doesn't even look nice. He's doing a really good Edgar Froese/Beethoven imitation and sometimes sounds like it! I guess that anger and disappointment is a hard thing to maintain with! I think there was some good stuff in the early days and he helped nail the bass down as important, but then, that's like saying that Paul McCartney was not doing anything worthwhile in the last 3 or 4 Beatles albums and showing people that music could also be done with a bass within a rock band context. And it was excellent music and as good as most of the classical over hyped stuff out there!
Geddy Lee ... I think he is a better singer and writer than he is a player. I really would like to see Rush bring along a keyboard player one day so it can free him up to have some fun ... I don't see how he can get any better and improve if he's doing everything all the time ... it's insane, somewhat megalomaniac and silly. I also think that it is making the band highly repetitive and not original anymore!
There are a lot better bass players out there, and Lothar Meid comes to mind in Amon Duul 2, in some quite different and difficult music, for which he also sang and wrote and never repeated himself.
Dave Pegg ... some of his work with Richard Thompson (specially 1 Side Live) is insanely well done and something that you can not teach. That simple. And it is progressive because it is not conventional and it bends and shapes and adds expression to the music ... but not sure that is as important here compared to the favored "gods".
Hugh Hopper ... Canterbury stuff ... enough said.
Don Schiff ... Rocket Scientists and solo. Probably the best bass player out there second to none.
MIke Howlett ... Gong and more ... probably one of the most technical players out there. Always simple, but deadly on timing, mood and expression, and that is a combination that is very difficult to teach and express on an instrument. Perhaps no one deserves his honorary chaimanship of a Musical School in Australia more than he does ... and few people know music and understand it as well as he does! Too many bass players rely on effects or this and that ... Mike is ... just there and more! |
Lothar Meid also played on the fantastic debut album by Passport called Doldinger from 1971-but i have difficulty trying to appreciate AD2-oh, well, cannot like everything
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elder08
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 25 2010
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 236
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Posted: June 28 2010 at 21:31 |
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I would have to say that Greg Lake is good but he is no Geddy Lee and Geddy Lee is no Chris Squier
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"There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour
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SaltyJon
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 08 2008
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 28772
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Posted: June 28 2010 at 21:54 |
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Philippe Bussonnet, Jannick Top, Bernard Paganotti, Richard Sinclair, Hugh Hopper, etc. I think they're all more talented than Greg Lake by far.
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VonSchlemmer
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 30 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 50
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Posted: June 30 2010 at 05:48 |
Knife Edge, one of the greatest prog basslines EVER 
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idoownu
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 01 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 00:49 |
Hugh Hopper, Definetaly.
The Greatest Bassline Ever: 2 minutes into Moon In June
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yanch
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2010
Location: Lowell, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 3247
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 06:07 |
The simple fact that several dozen different bass players have been mentioned in this thread shows that to name one particular bass player the "greatest" doesn't mean a lot. It also shows just how many marvelously talented players are out there!
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 06:24 |
 By a different definition, he may now be the greatest.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17527
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 13:41 |
BaldJean wrote:
are you familiar with Stanley Clarke? Jaco Pastorius? Helmut Hattler? Colin Hodgkinson? Peter Kühmstedt? Gerald Luciano Hartwig? Matz Steinke? I could continue this list endlessly....
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Agreed.
Greg is not bad, though, and the music he is playing is not always that easy and he adds to it a lot more than just bass ... he is also singing ... he is also augmenting it with an accoustic guitar ... and if anything, he has to be totally aware of the depth of the music that is being playing just so he can play a proper note on his bass to fit the moment ... and that is not easy, specially when you have a keyboard player that KNOWS music very well and understands music extremelly well.
In essence you have to be good to play with someone like that!
Greg, in my book, is good, but I have always thought that what he brought to the table was that ... he was not a very good singer at all ... but he was an extremely good actor with exceptional ability for accentuating the words correctly, and in a manner that gave the music even more strength ... and the other two players allowed him room for that since it was so individualistic compared to most rock music and anyone else out there that either scream or try to impress you with their scales ... but the voice has as many earthquakes as a tear in the ocean!
There is no doubt ... the strength when you hear .... "don't tell me lies ... " and then the drums accentuate it even more ... it's as honest emotion and care as you will ever hear in ANY rock music!
The only sad thing about it all for me, is that his solo albums were hugely disappointing and he didn't have the musicianship behind him to give him the accent that was needed. The first one had the two big cuts ((Retribution Drive and the one song about radioactivity) both of which were more Garry Moore than Greg Lake anyway, and his second album was really sad in my book. He did not have it as an individual and I think he was not able to get out of his words, enough to color it with music ... or it was simply really bad production, which is also possible.
Edited by moshkito - September 24 2010 at 13:52
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 14:01 |
Evolver wrote:
By a different definition, he may now be the greatest.
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he could definitely lose efew (dozen) pounds
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 14:35 |
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Gary Willis from Tribal tech.........not the greatest but worth a mention
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 14:38 |
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Also worth a mention is Pekka Pohjola
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17527
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 16:08 |
timothy leary wrote:
Also worth a mention is Pekka Pohjola |
No kidding ... just watch him keep Mike Oldfield together with Pierre Moerlin in the DVD "Exposed" .... it not only is talent, it's discipline, and ability. Pekka's material on his own also has some very nice things ... !
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 17:09 |
Believe me, this guys was one of the best Prog Fusion bass players I ever heard, was part of the Jean Luc Ponty staff for 5 albums, then played with Aretha, Journey, Billy Cobham, Bob Dylan, Herbie Hanc ock, Blue Oyster Cult etc, etc etc:
Sadly he ended being this guy:
And being part of this band. 
The once great bassist "Randy "The Emperor" Jackson".
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 24 2010 at 17:10
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 18:18 |
^ well he is actualy the only judge I pay attention to when he coments on the preformance (becouse he have been in the buisness for quite some time.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 20:24 |
aginor wrote:
^ well he is actualy the only judge I pay attention to when he coments on the preformance (becouse he have been in the buisness for quite some time. |
Yes, but the guy talks about self indulgent music after having played in Mystical Adventures.
Iván
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8618
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Posted: September 24 2010 at 20:31 |
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Since i have liked progressive rock, i have liked Greg Lake, but i must say that lately, as my collection of early ELP cds and dvds grows, i am starting to appreciate his greatness all the more-he is awesome!
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Greg Lake, Greatest Prog Bassist!
