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BaldFriede 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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 Posted: February 02 2008 at 15:59 |
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All I ever heard of them are the three example tracks in the database, and I must say I like them. The only thing that gets on my nerves is the double bass drumming; how much more interesting this would sound if instead of the in my opinion useless double bass drum would instead by a bass drum / hi-hat combination. What delicate contrast that would be!
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Firdous e Bareen
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 21:28 |
I think that the term "progressive" is best used as an ajective rather than a noun. It describes more an an overall philossophy on making music than it does a particular genre. Just because Tool don't use the bright melodies of Yes and Genensis doesn't mean they aren't a progressive band.
 ProgBagel wrote:
Also, I think the lyrics are straightfoward, but I took a quote out of a review for the album...shows how people take these straightforward lyrics and turn them into something there not.
"
Last remarkable song of Aenima is its title track. The lyrics of “Aenima” are about Southern California being all washed beneath the surface of the sea after some kind of disaster. It seems like Maynard James Keenan hates LA and wants to flush it all away. If we look deeper at what’s behind those lyrics is seems to me that the band is just outing its disapproval of the “emptiness” we have in our lives today. The more we work, the more we have, the less our lives become worth. We should go “back to basics” some times to really take the most out of our lives and learn how to estimate its true value again."
How did he come up with that?...I would really, really like to know.
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It's pretty simple really. Maynard's basically saying that all the shallow, pathetic little things in society can get f**ked. Having LA collapse into the sea is just a metaphor. The interpretation of the track you quoted was spot on, and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Most lyrics in progressive music require the listener to think about them. Yes's music isn't all about the passing of the seaons and King Krimson's isn't all about clocks, pigs, dogs and sheep. You need to think laterally to truly appreciate fine lyrics.
Edited by Firdous e Bareen - February 02 2008 at 21:33
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dpedal1
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 70
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Posted: February 03 2008 at 11:34 |
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I love Tool. Tool is the band that introduced me to prog rock. IMO, Lateralus is one of the greatest albums to be released in the past decade.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 03 2008 at 19:15 |
As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 08:23 |
I guess what stops many people from getting into Tool, is the lack of melodicism really, and perhaps the vocal style. I first heard Tool, in about 1999, but I forgot what it sounded like, and I heard it again in about 2005, with the song Schism, and it just felt like it was the first time I had heard Tool. I liked this song, but didn't love it at first. Last year, i finally purchased one of their albums, which was 10 000 days, I listened to it, and for a while it was good, but not great. But listening to it more and more, you hear all sorts of details, and each time I listen to 10 000 days, every couple of listens, sometimes several listens consecutively, i hear details I missed the last time. I could hand someone 10 000 days and they will listen to it and might tell me they can't understand why it's so beautiful and emotional, but everytime I listen to it, it's a unique listening experience that only Tool can bring to my table. So it basically took me several months of one CD to 'get' Tool, but now that I'm there, it was worth the effort.
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JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
Status: Offline
Points: 10063
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 09:19 |
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Can't get into Tool?Great then, don't bother trying. There are tons of other progressive metal bands out there. I find the "remember what I said about Opeth" bit very amusing. Saying something good/bad about one band does not justify your belief/disbelief with another.
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dpedal1
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 70
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 11:24 |
p0mt3 wrote:
As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it. |
Probably the most otherwordly experience one can have while listening to music. I too agree that everyone should try this. Great post.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 12:14 |
dpedal1 wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it. |
Probably the most otherwordly experience one can have while listening to music. I too agree that everyone should try this. Great post. |
Hey, thanks.  you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool. 
Edited by p0mt3 - February 04 2008 at 12:16
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dpedal1
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 70
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 12:57 |
p0mt3 wrote:
dpedal1 wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it. |
Probably the most otherwordly experience one can have while listening to music. I too agree that everyone should try this. Great post. |
Hey, thanks. you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool. |
To each his own. If you like it GREAT, it not no biggie. I'm with you on the trance like feel many bands evoke. Speaking of Isis, a buddy of mine has recommended that I get into them. Which album would you suggest. I have poked around and it seems like most recommend, "In The Absence of Truth."
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GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 16:46 |
dpedal1 wrote:
To each his own. If you like it GREAT, it not no biggie. I'm with you on the trance like feel many bands evoke. Speaking of Isis, a buddy of mine has recommended that I get into them. Which album would you suggest. I have poked around and it seems like most recommend, "In The Absence of Truth."
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PANOPTICON.
I wouldn't recommend starting out with anything earlier than that, but if you get into them, check out Oceanic and Celestial as well.
Edited by GoldenSpiral - February 04 2008 at 16:47
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Firdous e Bareen
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 00:01 |
p0mt3 wrote:
Hey, thanks. you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool. |
Music can move you on many levels, and I think that the way Tool choose to move you demands a lot more focus than the way a band like Yes moves you. They don't poor really obvious emotions into their music, but that's what makes it so special for the people who understand what it's all about - subtlety goes a long way, it moves you on a deeper level.
Edited by Firdous e Bareen - February 05 2008 at 00:03
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 00:11 |
Firdous e Bareen wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Hey, thanks. you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool. |
Music can move you on many levels, and I think that the way Tool choose to move you demands a lot more focus than the way a band like Yes moves you. They don't poor really obvious emotions into their music, but that's what makes it so special for the people who understand what it's all about - subtlety goes a long way, it moves you on a deeper level.
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I don't think subtlety is necessarily something moves you on a deeper level, but it's something that moves you in a different way, but I would agree that Tool's music can move you very deeply, as it does move me very deeply when I listen to it. I'm still extremely moved by a band like Yes, Dream Theater, Symphony X and Spastic Ink for example, but each of these bands moves me for different reasons, sometimes for similar reasons too. Same goes for Tool, but it certainly does take a lot of deep focus to hear what is going on in Tool's music, otherwise you miss out on details that add up to the overall experience.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 04:10 |
dpedal1 wrote:
To each his own. If you like it GREAT, it not no biggie. I'm with you on the trance like feel many bands evoke. Speaking of Isis, a buddy of mine has recommended that I get into them. Which album would you suggest. I have poked around and it seems like most recommend, "In The Absence of Truth." |
To tell you the truth, that very album is what got me into them, so I would suggest that, simply because, when I first heard it, I was like, "Wooooooahhhh!"
And realted to what some else said: I agree completely on that one really needs to pay close attention to Tool's music in order to hear all of the layers and feel all of the effects. That is why I pretty much always make jeadphones a mandatory requirement for people when I suggest listening to Tool; their music isn't listen-in-the-car-friendly. You really need to sit down and get intimate with the music before you can truly appreciate it all. At least, that's how it was with me. I didn't truly realize how beautiful "La te ral us" was until I listened to it in the phones in the comfort of my room with the lughts out. Now THAT was a memorable experience!
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Nuke
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 25 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 271
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 14:00 |
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For tool, you either "get it" or you don't. If you "get it," it is one of the best listening experiences ever. If you don't, then it just kind of sounds like boring grunge music. Each album (or at least their last 3) is a whole-album experiance. The person who earlier suggsted a greatest hits CD essentially suggested blasphemy to me. To understand Tool better, I would suggest listening to some indian classical music, specifically tabla/sitar music. I would sugest "concert for peace" by Ravi Shankner.
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 17:52 |
Ahhh Tool ... the only band on prog archives we are gagged from speaking freely about without dire consequences ... even Rush , Tull , Yes, King Crimson and Genesis dont get that kind of kid gloves protection ... and they are really talented. its crazy ... I believe in freedom of speech if the only thing people can say is nice stuff about a certain band it will be a little misleading.  ( I tried Tool and moved on very fast)
Edited by Yorkie X - February 05 2008 at 18:01
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 18:04 |
IMO, Tool started prog metal minus the speed, and I must say, that kind of metal is 95% of the metal I listen too.
So if you say you cant get into tool, I'm sorry to hear that.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 18:41 |
Yorkie X wrote:
Ahhh Tool ... the only band on prog archives we are gagged from speaking freely about without dire consequences ... even Rush , Tull , Yes, King Crimson and Genesis dont get that kind of kid gloves protection ... and they are really talented. its crazy ... I believe in freedom of speech if the only thing people can say is nice stuff about a certain band it will be a little misleading.
( I tried Tool and moved on very fast)
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With all due respect, maybe moving on very fast was your mistake . . . ? It took me several listens to "La te ral us" to really start to understand what is so great about them. Had I just listened to them once and then moved on I wouldn't be so storngly supportive of them today.
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dpedal1
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 70
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 22:18 |
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I purchase Lateralus when it first came out. It took my two years before I realized how amazing that album is. It is now one of my favs.
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 22:21 |
p0mt3 wrote:
Yorkie X wrote:
Ahhh Tool ... the only band on prog archives we are gagged from speaking freely about without dire consequences ... even Rush , Tull , Yes, King Crimson and Genesis dont get that kind of kid gloves protection ... and they are really talented. its crazy ... I believe in freedom of speech if the only thing people can say is nice stuff about a certain band it will be a little misleading.
( I tried Tool and moved on very fast)
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With all due respect, maybe moving on very fast was your mistake . . . ? It took me several listens to "La te ral us" to really start to understand what is so great about them. Had I just listened to them once and then moved on I wouldn't be so storngly supportive of them today. |
Agreed
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Charterhouser
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 04 2008
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: February 06 2008 at 15:43 |
Well I listened to Aenima and Lateralus, encouraged by the positive reviews I had found on this site, some of which compared to Pink Floyd and marked Lateralus as the new millenium Dark Side of the Moon. I didn't really care about that- I immediately thought that statements like these aren't generally reliable- but I was interested by the feeling of their music so positevely described by many reviewers. And I have to tell that... I was really disappointed... I truly could not get into it! Couldn't appreciate nor found any particular technical skill (except for the drummer), any melodic talent... I liked some of the atmospheres, but overall the songs seemed to me just sick, monotonous and... a bit pretentious... and the vocals just played an alienating effect on me, I just couldn't stant them.
I'm speaking, of course, in personal terms, without criticizing Tool for what they are... Tool fans please don't slander me  ... |
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I spent my hatred everyplace, on every work, on every face, someone gave me wishes and I wished for an embrace...- Teachers, Leonard Cohen
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Cannot get into Tool
