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richardh 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28059 |
 Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:27 |
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Funny old chap.The 'Heads up their arses' comment accurately describes a lot of the prog rock fraternity at the time (1971-1972). Hardly controversial really. It will probably annoy a few though that he includes Gentle Giant in his little list.
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 16 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 864 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:29 |
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My apologies for starting a thread that has forced you to take your trousers to the cleaners!  Please do enlighten us on what he really said in the video.Is it one thing for Ian (a non-punk) to Sl*g prog, and another for Johnny Rotten, Jello Biafra, and other punks to do the same? It seems to me that, in the past, a lot of people have gotten pissed about punks taking the piss out of Yes, ELP, etc, but it's not as bad when Ian does it. Is this true?
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jc
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 864 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:31 |
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See an earlier posting of mine in this thread re: prog in '71, when TAAB was made. Prog's excesses weren't in full swing yet. Topographic, The Lamb, etc, weren't until much later.
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jc
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28059 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:36 |
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 864 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:41 |
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The momentum was there, but the ridiculousness wasn't. The Yes Album is worlds away from Tales From Topographic Oceans... In a recent issue of Classic Rock Presents Prog, many illuminaries discuss that year ('71) and agree that it was the pinnacle of the genre, before the ambition got the best of many involved.
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jc
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28059 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:47 |
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 864 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:54 |
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What I was referring to directly was his comment (joking or not) that TAAB was a spoof of 'heads up their arses' concept-album bands like Genesis, Yes, and ELP. He may have been joking (although the vibe I get is that he really doesn't care for those bands, which is fine by me), but as TAAB came out in '71 it's apparent that the album wasn't a spoof of those bands... more likely a spoof (if it really was one and not just revisionist history on his part) of Tommy because the prog bands of the time had yet to make their over-the-top concept albums yet. They were still pretty trimmed and streamlined albums compared to what was to come (The Lamb, Topographic, Works, etc, were later).
This being the case (him saying that TAAB was a reaction to "those" prog bands), I don't think he was pretty accurate.
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jc
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28059 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 02:01 |
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 864 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 02:08 |
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Richard, I appreciate your posts and the intelligence behind them... One thing that interests me (and Lord knows why!) is the reactions of people to this thread: some are ticked off at Ian's sl*g.ing of prog, others defend him as just a guy having a laugh and implying that people are being overly sensitive.
As I stated, the vibe I get is that he really doesn't care for the bands he mentions and has a bit of fun with it. Is this less offensive to the people who say it shouldn't be taken so seriously than comments by noted punk rockers (or other non-prog musicians) who have historically knocked the genre? No one's really addressed that here although I've thrown that out there in a couple posts. What's the difference (if there is any) between Ian knocking the genre, and other non-proggers doing it (I'm considering, for the sake of argument, Ian as a progger here, as opposed to, say, John Lydon).
Edited by bucka001 - November 09 2011 at 02:09 |
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jc
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 02:52 |
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TAAB was indeed a parody of the concept of concept album but based on criticism of the 'concept' of Aqualung. There were no prog concept albums prior to or in 1971, unless you count Tommy or, arguably, Sgt Peppers. As for the other part of your post, certainly Anderson poking fun to a prog audience and at people he knows well is a lot more harmless than burning effigies of Keith Emerson. The implication is that people are prepared to laugh off Ian Anderson's comments partly because he is funny and partly because he was part of the movement and he can make of it what he likes. I don't know if that's what you've implied, but people would probably not laugh off criticism of prog from a friend as easily as they would if it's Anderson. Speaking for myself, even if he was dead serious about it, I think what he said is not without merit.
 There's basically no perfect or ideal musical genre. Prog gets noodly and bloated, metal gets VERY repetitive, some eras of classical music can be rather stately, so on and so forth. P.S: I have the Madison Square Garden performance DVD and in the album notes, Anderson refers to himself as gesticulating rather wildly or something to that effect, don't remember his exact words. So, he is quite capable of looking in the mirror and laughing at his own reflection. He is not trying to have his cake and eat it too, in other words. Edited by rogerthat - November 09 2011 at 02:53 |
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Katusnya
Forum Newbie 
Joined: July 17 2008 Location: Targu Mures Status: Offline Points: 27 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 03:21 |
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Ian for president!!! :)))))) FUNNY!!!
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I love Music!
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 04:12 |
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Some injection of whatever: Some prog rock, some of the best albums no less, was overbloated and well over the top. That Wakeman and Anderson sees the funny sides of certain excesses just proves that they are sound, sane persons. Nothing more and nothing less. I have read Rick Wakeman's biography/tales from the Yes years and this book is one of the most funny book you can ever read. And yes, I still love the well over the top loony excess albums from that time. But I also sees the funny side of them and the scene. For example when Genesis and their managment was panicking one night in London before going on stage because they could not find their vocalist (Gabriel) anywhere. They only found an exotic vegetable on the stage........ which was their vocalist. The concert was on. I think everyone of a sound mind find that funny. I see no contradictions in terms when I both love the Gabriel era Genesis & find their excesses hilarious funny. And this is how I see Ian Anderson's attitudes too. Let's both laugh and praise the music created at that time. We are big enough to do that. |
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10616 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 04:51 |
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Don't take it too seriously. And I remember Ian Anderson liking Gentle Giant. I searched it back on the internet and here it is:
http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/Ian_Anderson_interview_regarding_Gentle_Giant |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7272 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 05:11 |
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The history of The Marquee Club, where all of these bands "cut their teeth," is revealing. Ian's playing a prank on us, trust me! They were as thick as thieves, and I'm sure they are sharing his laugh at our expense!
http://www.themarqueeclub.net/history-the-wardour-st-days-1964-1988 "In February 1970, the club went through an important achievement: the opening of the bar since finally got a license for serving alcohol. During the first years of the new decade the club also saw the birth of progressive music, hosting the new talent of legendary bands such as Ten Years After, Procol Harum, Taste, Family, the Nice, Yes, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Genesis, and Van Der Graaf Generator. Many of these bands would reach international audiences during the early 70's, changing their residencies at the Marquee for the big arenas around the world. At the time, London venues like the Rainbow Theatre and the Hammersmith Odeon would look more appropiate for the demand of wider audiences." Edited by cstack3 - November 09 2011 at 05:13 |
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wilmon91
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2009 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 698 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 05:46 |
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It's funny when he says "not a concept album - bunch of songs.". But I think it all shows a distress over being associated with the prog movement. Because no genre has been generalized so much as prog. Especially in criticism, people want to dismiss the whole thing with one word, such as pretentious. And all bands being bunched together as if they were the same thing. And those who want to critize it only wants to concentrate on the negative aspects. If someone says "you have to admit - a lot of prog was bad"...well, what genre doesn't have a lot of bad music? Rock? Pop? Techno? But for some reason prog is a genre were every detail has to be perfect in order to be accepted.
I think Ian Anderson doesn't want to be limited to and thought of as one of the prog giants with all the generalized associations that come with it, so he says that the other bands had their heads up their arse while Jethro Tull only did a concept album just for fun.
It's not especially funny, just very dry in my opinion. That generalized image of prog, bands that are too serious for their own good, is just very old, and showing self-distance, being able to criticize aspects of prog in retrospect isn't especially admirable in this day. Everyone knows what associations the word prog brings with it, the narrowminded image of it is what is prevailing. That's why it's not pericularly fun when Anderson buys into that by saying the other prog giants have their heads up their arses. It's just that old image of pretentious proggers being brought up again. It's very old.
The general view of prog deserves to be seen for what it is instead of being slandered all the time.
But I wasn't pissed at what he said, because it mostly shows some distress over being part of something that people have judgemental and preconceived ideas about. |
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 07:03 |
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Loving this thread so far.
It's great to watch how some people without a sense of humour try to convince others that there's no such thing. Keep it up! Best thread in ages. |
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 11672 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 07:56 |
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I don't know. I guess I still haven't forgiven him the 70-80 euros I
paid for for something sounding like a third rate tribute band. A good
tribute band would atleast sound inspired. So seeing him so self-congratulating and pleased with himself ticked me off. But not as much as npjnpj's kind of comments. Of course everyone notices the jokeish way he says it, but not everyone shares your dull sense of humour.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 08:39 |
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 864 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 09:45 |
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Yeah, I get what you're saying. But, on the flip of that (and this is the vibe from what some are saying on a different forum) it's actually more annoying coming from Ian because - while you expect it from critics, punks, hipper-than-thou music heads - it's different coming from a prog hero (to some). Here's a (pretty f*ck'd up!!!) analogy... It's like being a left-wing liberal, totally tuned in to the show Mystery Science Theater 3000 (believing that it mirrors your sensibilities) and finding out that your hero/host Mike Nelson is a stone cold conservative republican. You expect right wing commentators to criticize your view, but you don't expect it from one of 'your' guys. *whew* where on earth did I come up with that??
A lot of bands knew each other because they'd play fests together and bump into each other at the Blue Boar Motorway on the way home from gigs. But if you ever interview them or read interviews of a lot of them, the times were very insular. Bands saw each other as rivals even though they'd be cordial and maybe even hang out (like at the drinking establishments La Chasse, The Ship (been there), and The Speakeasy). Doesn't mean they all loved each other's music.
I do get what you've been saying, that Ian's having a laugh and a bit of fun with it... but you can do that and still actually mean what you say. When he says Yes and ELP could take an idea and noodle it into the ground, I believe he's sincere and isn't a fan of those bands (but he could have a pint with them and yuck it up). So, to me, it's no different to when punks or hip critics have a go at prog. I just wonder if the same people who are saying 'lighten up!' (such as yourself, and fair enough!) would say 'lighten up, it's okay' when it's critics/punks knocking their fave prog bands in the same way. In my mind, they're hypocritical if they don't take the same attitude. If they do say 'its okay when punks do it too,' then they're consistent. Edited by bucka001 - November 09 2011 at 09:47 |
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jc
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 864 |
Posted: November 09 2011 at 09:48 |
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Thanks, I try. You should see the other thread I started on 'What is prog?'
(that's a joke, btw)
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jc
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Ian Anderson disses prog
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Catcher10 wrote: