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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
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Posted: November 26 2010 at 19:14 |
Supertramp - School, Child of Vision and Another Mens Woman
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: November 26 2010 at 19:50 |
Rod Argent, on Lothlorian, from Ring of Hands, deserves mention. I give him some points for having a bit of pedigree.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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JeanFrame
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 01 2010
Location: London, England
Status: Offline
Points: 195
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 03:49 |
According to the web, the best keyboard players of the progressive rock era were Keith Emerson, Tony Banks, Billy Ritchie, Rick Wright, and RIck Wakeman. Funny thing is, I never heard any of them play what I'd call a great solo. The closest of the bunch has to be Rick Wakeman, he certainly seems to have the best technique of all the other candidates, and his clever use of sound textures by way of range of instruments is unsurpassed. Some of his solo pieces are outstanding, though mainly on his own without a band at all, clearly a different strategy, and not really accountable to anyone but himself. Although the only one of those nominees to actually carry a band on his own fully and properly (and the first to do so) was Ritchie (of Clouds), I would say that he is one of the poorest of the bunch when it comes to actual solos. Emerson, though fully deserving his accolades as King of the keyboards, often showed that solos weren't his strong point either. Rick Wright isn't really on a par with the others as far as technique and dynamics go, but he was unbeatable at soundscapes and atmosphere, solos weren't really ever his domain. Banks is another fine foot soldier of the keys, and can boast many fine moments in performance, but not in solos of any stature.
Solos are almost another context from what the keyboardist does in his other routine functions as part of the band. It's the moment when he stands apart from the others and takes centre stage. The content of the solo can't be just fast or flashy (though that can help!), it has to be meaningful. Personally, the finest piano solo I've heard in recen times is from a virtual pop radio song 'That's the way it is'. It sparkles and jumps and never settles into wondering what the next note is, it soars over the cliff and takes its chances. That's what I call a solo.
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1038
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 08:19 |
JeanFrame wrote:
According to the web, the best keyboard players of the progressive rock era were Keith Emerson, Tony Banks, Billy Ritchie, Rick Wright, and RIck Wakeman. Funny thing is, I never heard any of them play what I'd call a great solo. The closest of the bunch has to be Rick Wakeman, he certainly seems to have the best technique of all the other candidates, and his clever use of sound textures by way of range of instruments is unsurpassed. Some of his solo pieces are outstanding, though mainly on his own without a band at all, clearly a different strategy, and not really accountable to anyone but himself. Although the only one of those nominees to actually carry a band on his own fully and properly (and the first to do so) was Ritchie (of Clouds), I would say that he is one of the poorest of the bunch when it comes to actual solos. Emerson, though fully deserving his accolades as King of the keyboards, often showed that solos weren't his strong point either. Rick Wright isn't really on a par with the others as far as technique and dynamics go, but he was unbeatable at soundscapes and atmosphere, solos weren't really ever his domain. Banks is another fine foot soldier of the keys, and can boast many fine moments in performance, but not in solos of any stature.
Solos are almost another context from what the keyboardist does in his other routine functions as part of the band. It's the moment when he stands apart from the others and takes centre stage. The content of the solo can't be just fast or flashy (though that can help!), it has to be meaningful. Personally, the finest piano solo I've heard in recen times is from a virtual pop radio song 'That's the way it is'. It sparkles and jumps and never settles into wondering what the next note is, it soars over the cliff and takes its chances. That's what I call a solo.
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You make some good points but I have to disagree about Emerson. It's all a matter of taste of course but I can think of a lot of great solos he did - KE9 prts 1 and 3, The Barbarian, Rondo (loads of different live versions), Stones of Years (again some stonking live versions). The Three Fates is one of my favourite Emerson pieces and that's almost one big solo. Trying to think of who was good at solos I'd say the Daves Lawson and Greenslade from Greenslade, and Jon Lord from Deep Purple who did a lot of great stuff both live and in the studio. Brian Auger is one of the most creative Hammond soloists I've heard working in rock music and Vincent Crane of Atomic Rooster is another worth a mention. Tony Kaye did some good work on the first two Yes albums but seemed to have turned into a session man just holding down chords by the time of The Yes Album. I agree about the Bruce Hornsby song!
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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AbrahamSapien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2009
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 181
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 10:57 |
Sound Chaser absolutely!!!!!!! Also DT has great Stuff, like Octavarium.
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 11:05 |
aginor wrote:
Supertramp - School, Child of Vision and Another Mens Woman |
Davies the blues piano man!
Reminds me of Billy Joel in AMW
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halabalushindigus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2009
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 1438
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 14:24 |
Oliver Wakeman live with Yes( currently check this one out "Starship Troopers" at the end. To die for..and one-handed!
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assume the power 1586/14.3
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 20:05 |
And this guy is showing an Avatar with Captain Beefheart?
Edited by moshkito - December 01 2010 at 20:08
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 20:07 |
JeanFrame wrote:
According to the web, the best keyboard players of the progressive rock era were Keith Emerson, Tony Banks, Billy Ritchie, Rick Wright, and RIck Wakeman. ...
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Wow ... you found GOD!
Now it's time to go read those scriptures!
Actually, I've been trying like crazy to see if I can get the ProgArchives to do something about their organization so that all of their information is much better presented, much better sorted, and would become a much better tool for the internet viewer and person searching for this music and information on it.
While I like the rather anarchistic manner in which things are done here, the sad part is that sometimes it works against the design, and the process and the ability to organize things in such a matter that even a professor ... would be interested in checking it out ... instead ... all the professors are writing stuff on Wikipedia and we just look like a bunch of nerds and idiots that just like the music ... we're not smart enough to do better than that.
We have some great information on the bands. We have some very good reviews ... and maybe some that are not really reviews that should be taken out or placed in a posting on a forum ... and then we should clean up our discussions on the front page ... right now it's just nothing about "progressive music" and what it means ... it's just a bunch of links, that have the effect of ... splitting progressive music to smithreens!
Which is counter productive to what we really want to do! I don't thik Wiki is God ... but you gotta give it credit for not being afraid to put the information in there and then make sure you can check it out on your own ... it's what a good paper looks like in college, and you would get a good grade for. I guess that this board would be considered the hippie group in the commune and some of us are not interested in dishes ... we're more interested in divisions like "crossover", "neothisandthat" ... a lot more than we are in putting down the real history and information around the work that we love.
Progressive music was not about solos. Jazz is about solos. So, it figures that if all you are checking out is "solos", you are listening to the wrong music!
Edited by moshkito - December 01 2010 at 20:29
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28064
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Posted: December 02 2010 at 01:35 |
Grumpy because someone nicked your avatar Moshy?
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: December 02 2010 at 01:57 |
thehallway wrote:
aginor wrote:
Supertramp - School, Child of Vision and Another Mens Woman |
Davies the blues piano man!
Reminds me of Billy Joel in AMW |
Great to see Davies mentioned!!!
I love Wakeman's 6 Wives off Yessongs
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: December 02 2010 at 01:59 |
richardh wrote:
Grumpy because someone nicked your avatar Moshy? |
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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jean-marie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: FRANCE
Status: Offline
Points: 2585
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Posted: December 02 2010 at 18:07 |
Did anybody listen carefully to back to school by JON and VANGELIS, there'sa flaming keyboard solo, coloured sound and great playing!!!
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 17:12 |
Hi,
Guys ... (and gals) ... good luck trying to elevate the music you like ... from "solo's" to the level of music ... the history of music is full of them soloists that no one can remember or name ... and the history of rock music will not be any different, specially if you call ot "progressive" or "prog", because in the end, if the solo is not a part of the music and able to extend the music into a realm that is much further than a "song" (meaning the 3 to 4 minute stuff) ... then you have lost the perception of what music means and what a lot of the folks out there are doing ... and one of the main reasons why so many of those musicians do not like the term "progressive" ... because it is not even close to what the real music inside those people is all about.
I take the artists side. You guys keep taking the side of the comercial definition and popular definition and think that it should be the rule. You are, by doing that, closing and preventing new music from coming to the forefront of your life and others. You might as well say ... you don't want it, because you do not allow anyone else to see or feel, or say, anything different!
Again, if you want solo's ... jazz is your music. If all "prog" is about is a "solo", then we are done labeling it "prog" because it is just another formula out there ... for something that you guys call "music".
Which I will not buy! And neither will many others!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 17:38 |
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Guys ... (and gals) ... good luck trying to elevate the music you like ... from "solo's" to the level of music ... the history of music is full of them soloists that no one can remember or name ... and the history of rock music will not be any different, specially if you call ot "progressive" or "prog", because in the end, if the solo is not a part of the music and able to extend the music into a realm that is much further than a "song" (meaning the 3 to 4 minute stuff) ... then you have lost the perception of what music means and what a lot of the folks out there are doing ... and one of the main reasons why so many of those musicians do not like the term "progressive" ... because it is not even close to what the real music inside those people is all about.
I take the artists side. You guys keep taking the side of the comercial definition and popular definition and think that it should be the rule. You are, by doing that, closing and preventing new music from coming to the forefront of your life and others. You might as well say ... you don't want it, because you do not allow anyone else to see or feel, or say, anything different!
Again, if you want solo's ... jazz is your music. If all "prog" is about is a "solo", then we are done labeling it "prog" because it is just another formula out there ... for something that you guys call "music".
Which I will not buy! And neither will many others! |
I don't think most people on PA would elevate 'solos' to being the apex of the Progressive Rock genre Moshkito. My understanding of this thread is that the OP wished us to nominate keyboard solos in Prog that we particularly enjoy and admire. There's no harm in that is there? (let's not confuse the particular with the general) Where I would agree with you however is that the time-honoured tradition of the virtuoso 'heroic shredder' that has existed since the days of Lizst and Paganini via Satriani and Vai, is unhealthy tacky razzmatazz and does hinder the core communicative aspects of any underlying musical ideas etc
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Xanatos
Forum Senior Member
Banned
Joined: February 01 2010
Location: Latin America
Status: Offline
Points: 305
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 18:13 |
Any colour you like synth solo is great
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 13:01 |
Not only on the solo subject, but a very underrated prog keyboardist is Kansas' Steve Walsh, often regarded more as a singer than as a keyboardist. But just listen to 'The Spider" in Point of Know Return.
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resurrection
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 08 2010
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 254
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Posted: December 05 2010 at 02:52 |
Ritchie had the biggest organ sound ever; and his organ solo in the middle of Sing-Sing-Sing is outstanding, probably the best ever on a progressive rock record. Only he and Emerson were what you would call lead organists; Wakeman, Lord & Crane were the best of the support organists. Ritchie was no good at extra sounds or keyboards, he was all organ and piano, Wakeman & Emerson were in a league of their own with synths; Auger & many others were jazzers, not rockers. I like a lot of Emerson & Wakeman solos, Ritchie only had that one on record that stood up to the others, in fact, as I said, in my opinion it's the best organ solo on record that I know, but he wasn't a natural soloist, more flash than substance much of the rest of the time.It was also basically music from the previous era, Clouds were more a proto-prog or psych band than prog. Therefore, the true masters of progressive rock keyboards has to be Emerson and Wakeman, another sound level altogether.
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: December 05 2010 at 16:25 |
Tarkus
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28064
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Posted: December 05 2010 at 16:36 |
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Guys ... (and gals) ... good luck trying to elevate the music you like ... from "solo's" to the level of music ... the history of music is full of them soloists that no one can remember or name ... and the history of rock music will not be any different, specially if you call ot "progressive" or "prog", because in the end, if the solo is not a part of the music and able to extend the music into a realm that is much further than a "song" (meaning the 3 to 4 minute stuff) ... then you have lost the perception of what music means and what a lot of the folks out there are doing ... and one of the main reasons why so many of those musicians do not like the term "progressive" ... because it is not even close to what the real music inside those people is all about.
I take the artists side. You guys keep taking the side of the comercial definition and popular definition and think that it should be the rule. You are, by doing that, closing and preventing new music from coming to the forefront of your life and others. You might as well say ... you don't want it, because you do not allow anyone else to see or feel, or say, anything different!
Again, if you want solo's ... jazz is your music. If all "prog" is about is a "solo", then we are done labeling it "prog" because it is just another formula out there ... for something that you guys call "music".
Which I will not buy! And neither will many others! |
Your post is contradictory to me.
Progressive music should be free of boundaries I agree. But then that means it should be allowed to go anywhere. Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer have great interest in jazz music so is it any surprise that this creeped into their own music.
Let music fly. That means no rules at all and that includes your rule that solo's somehow invalidate the progressiveness of the music.
Edited by richardh - December 05 2010 at 16:37
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