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Topic ClosedIs Steely Dan prog ?
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Poll Question: Do you consider Steely Dan as a prog band ?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
22 [29.73%]
52 [70.27%]
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2008 at 20:41
Originally posted by mrgd mrgd wrote:

CONGRATULATIONS to the PA teams for admitting them to this site . Arguments about their classification here [ and pardon me for being brutally honest here] are simply pedantic and esoteric . With respect to those I am targeting, this is about the music and not about the politics amongst the decision makers who exercise their discretion on this site.

- right on


I agree that it is negative and detrimental to the discussion to make comparisons with other bands that arguably should or should not be here. Their admission has been debated long and hard and a decision has been made which has not been taken lightly, I'm sure.

-you are correct sir


Why shouldn't they be admitted? Is it because many of their tunes are more rock based . Is it because they have enjoyed commercial success with some of these tunes, or am I just bungling in the jungle here. Am I closeted in my wardrobe because I know what I like in there. I hope I'm not just carrying on like my wayward son here or am I just a dreamer . I guess I might have to give a little bit here ! ! Hang on a minute, that doesn't seem to be a valid argument really, now does it!   Is it because they are from the USA. Is it because one of them wears glasses? Was their hair not long enough for long enough? [ Sorry, I've descended into fatuous cynicism so I'll snap myself out of it ].

- wanna know a secret?  Many may simply haven't heard the entirety of the material.. they think about that overplayed, tinny whine they remember and think "Prog?  Hell no."  I don't blame them for this, we can't all listen carefully to everything

Anyway, most of us seem to understand that it is at least that part of their music that is Jazz and/or fusion influenced that helps qualify them irrespective of arguments about their classification.

I want to end this by saying I had the very great pleasure of seeing them live in their Aus. tour last year. They played nearly all of 'Aja', including a magnificent version of that track itself and a drummer by the name of Keith Carlock made the drumming his own in an extraordinary performance that would have had Steve Gadd green with envy , and that's saying something . Their better known tunes had been re-arranged in a far more 'progressive' way so that any of the most jealously guarding 'prog' collaborators/ team members etc. would simply have had to concede that their performance was demonstrative of 'prog', according to whichever definition of this ubiquitous term you may wish to defer to.

Do we not realise that 'prog' is ubiquitous in it's various shapes and forms . This band is simply yet another example of that fact imo.







Edited by Atavachron - August 26 2008 at 20:45
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Points: 1361 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2008 at 20:45
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

A BIG FAT NO !!! good Band Love them but Prog ? oh come on so what next
i know a Sub Genre 
AOR/ Prog ???
so who Next ?
Dobbie Brothers ?
Foreigner  ?
Tom Petty ?]
Little Feet ?
Joe Walsh ?
Bob Seger ?
Bozz Scaggs ?
Journey  ?
Styx ?
Boston ?
Fleetwood Mac ?
REO Speedwagon ?
Triumph ?
Heart ?
Boston ?
The Cars ?

Prog  yeah right 

Wonders off rolling eyes to make a Cup of Tea




Styx and Triumph are on PA.  And the day Boston gets on here is the day I don't come back.  Loathsome band.Dead
Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2008 at 21:05
this is why decisions here are made on the whole of the material, not everyone's image or memories of some band they heard on the radio 20 years ago      ..Boston?  You're comparing a talented corporate rock band who put out two albums (or is it three?) over a 30 year period to one of the most learned, unique, inventive, and elegant Art rock bands in the world?  Odd.
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Points: 4119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2008 at 21:44
elegant Art rock bands in the world?   But is it Prog ??
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2008 at 21:51
well now, that's a conversation the members of this site - not to mention the Prog community - have been having for a long, long time.  I suggest you look at the many 'What is Prog?' threads here, as I can't really answer for you what Prog is    ..that said, did Steely Dan make progressive rock (i.e. Countdown to Ecstacy) ?  You bet you're sweet behind they did







Edited by Atavachron - August 26 2008 at 21:53
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Points: 1049 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2008 at 22:06
things are starting to get a bit dangerous I`m gonna say nothing.  Confused
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Points: 3834 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2008 at 22:44
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

elegant Art rock bands in the world?   But is it Prog ??


Well Art Rock, as well as being a sub-genre here at one stage (including King Crimson and i think Rush), is considered by most as a synonym for prog. So yes.
"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg
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Points: 2614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2008 at 23:23
No. They are nit-picky pop.
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Points: 822 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 02:04
I don't want to nit-pick but the likes of Walt Weiskopf, Michael Leonhart, Freddie Washington, Jim Pugh, Jon Herrington, Jeff Young Keith Carlock who tour with them and then the long list of musos who have recorded with them including Pete Christlieb, Cornelius Bumpus [ gotta love that name ], Ricky Lawson, and then people like Chuck Rainey, Steve Kahn, Steve Gadd, Dennis Chambers, Bernard Purdie, Michael and Randy Brecker, Don Grolnick, Victor Feldman, David Sanborn, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton , Joe Sample etc. etc. etc., last time I looked aren't that renowned for playing 'nit-picky' pop, and I believe that holds true as far as their association with STEELY DAN is concerned.

As always , it's a matter of opinion even if some opinions appear to be a little misguided on the subject.
Looking still the same after all these years...
mrgd
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Points: 1170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 02:56
These days I've given up on finding any new, real prog from this site. It's much more fun to see what bands get added, the ensuing controversy, and the reasons people come up with to rationalize the additions.
http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 03:02
Originally posted by Avantgardehead Avantgardehead wrote:

These days I've given up on finding any new, real prog from this site. It's much more fun to see what bands get added, the ensuing controversy, and the reasons people come up with to rationalize the additions.


it is fun..  to bad you've given up on new, real prog from this site as that's 99% of what is added, day after day, week after week









Edited by Atavachron - August 27 2008 at 03:03
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 03:27
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

have a listen to this cut micky posted in the SD appreciation thread, listen to those synth solos and sophisticated arrangements, and judge for yourself if it isn't as prog as prog as, say, Argent, Supertramp, or a cut like 'Lucky Man'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiRIE2irAgc


 
I'm not a fan of Steely Dan at all, and am not familiar enough with all their output to comment - but that song certainly isn't Prog. It's foot-tapping, head-bobbing pop music.
 
Aaargh!!! The instrumental section is REALLY annoying! I hate those keyboard sounds and all the unrelated changes - there's no musical development, it's just a song written by people who have a lot of songwriting and performing experience with big studio production... I'm really not going to like anything else I hear by them, I can just tell!!
 
I certainly would not compare it to the organic writing of Supertramp on songs such as "Crime of the Century"; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVPhVV1dYd0
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 03:55
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

I'm not a fan of Steely Dan at all, and am not familiar enough with all their output to comment - but that song certainly isn't Prog. It's foot-tapping, head-bobbing pop music.
 
Aaargh!!! The instrumental section is REALLY annoying! I hate those keyboard sounds and all the unrelated changes - there's no musical development, it's just a song written by people who have a lot of songwriting and performing experience with big studio production... I'm really not going to like anything else I hear by them, I can just tell!!


then I'm glad you'll be saving some money   ..what we don't like is surely as important as what we do, and our personal views of Prog/not Prog help to guide our musical journey and  to find what's really important to us

 
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 09:16
I've said it once and I'll say it again. If Steely Dan are prog I'm a Dutchman.
Kind Regards,
Jan van Huntelaar
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 14:03
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

I'm not a fan of Steely Dan at all, and am not familiar enough with all their output to comment - but that song certainly isn't Prog. It's foot-tapping, head-bobbing pop music.
 
Aaargh!!! The instrumental section is REALLY annoying! I hate those keyboard sounds and all the unrelated changes - there's no musical development, it's just a song written by people who have a lot of songwriting and performing experience with big studio production... I'm really not going to like anything else I hear by them, I can just tell!!


then I'm glad you'll be saving some money   ..what we don't like is surely as important as what we do, and our personal views of Prog/not Prog help to guide our musical journey and  to find what's really important to us

 
 
Indeed - I'm not trying to say that my taste is any kind of authority. Wink
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Points: 3577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 14:13
The guitar solos in Reelin' in the years are very well constructed and demostrates that Dennis Dias and Jeff Baxter have the guts!
 
Also the instrumental passages in Rikki Don't Lose that Number, and the vocal intonation are powerful and great.


Edited by zafreth - August 27 2008 at 14:15




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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 16:42
Originally posted by Roj M30 Roj M30 wrote:

I've said it once and I'll say it again. If Steely Dan are prog I'm a Dutchman.
Kind Regards,
Jan van Huntelaar



Shocked

LOL

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Points: 628 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 18:31
All you ne'sayers can gnash your teeth if you want.
What's the good in raising ire about such a subjective question?
Steely Dan are here.
I believe from what I've read that the majority of people on this site hold them in high reverence.
They are in my opinion progressive in that they have a high level of musicianship, thought-provoking lyrics, arrangements which are surpassed by few and a style so totally unique that no-one before or since have been able to better.
I know there are limits to what is acceptable as prog (crossover-prog) but the Dan to me are not even close to being contentious. It's not like Nickleback or James Blunt are being added to the Progressive Archives.hahaWink
I would say a more rewarding approach would be to open yourself to a band that have a long track record of ground breaking art and have elevated a form of music to a point where they set the bar for others to come.
 
My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 18:34
 ^ well said      ..next up for addition, Michael Buble






  Wink
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Points: 4119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 18:40
Originally posted by Dr. Occulator Dr. Occulator wrote:

All you ne'sayers can gnash your teeth if you want.
What's the good in raising ire about such a subjective question?
Steely Dan are here.
I believe from what I've read that the majority of people on this site hold them in high reverence.
They are in my opinion progressive in that they have a high level of musicianship, thought-provoking lyrics, arrangements which are surpassed by few and a style so totally unique that no-one before or since have been able to better.
I know there are limits to what is acceptable as prog (crossover-prog) but the Dan to me are not even close to being contentious. It's not like Nickleback or James Blunt are being added to the Progressive Archives.hahaWink
I would say a more rewarding approach would be to open yourself to a band that have a long track record of ground breaking art and have elevated a form of music to a point where they set the bar for others to come.
 

Thats all well and good but does that make them Prog ??




thinking um









No
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