Prototypes of Prog |
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someone_else
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You may be right .
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Online Points: 8951 |
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try playing Oh Well (one of my top 3 Fleetwood Mac songs) followed by Mike Oldfield's Ommadawn Part 2 Band 3. In general I would say the second part of Oh Well was a big influence on Oldfield
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Heart of the Matter
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A multifacetic piece of music "Oh Well", you can never peel the last layer. Which would be the other 2 favourites?
There are still another sources for prog mannerism waiting to be pointed at: -Convoluted vocal harmonies (C,S&N and Buffalo Springfield?) -Guitar tecnique experimentation (The Byrds, let's say in "8 miles high") -Studio tecniques playing a decisive role in composition (The inicial Grateful Dead, let's say, in "Anthem To The Sun" |
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Online Points: 8951 |
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^ My other two favourite Fleetwood Mac songs are from 2 different eras from "Oh Well"
The amazing "Sands of Time" from "Future Games", Danny Kirwan's finest moment The slow burn and blistering "Sisters of the Moon" from "Tusk", a Stevie Nicks tune Off the top of my head, I think the Yardbirds exhibited some proto proto prog traits in their attitude and arrangements
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
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I think that one needs an intimate understanding of 60s psych rock to make suggestions for proto prog. Many know Procol Harum's Whiter Shade of Pale but not the 18 minute long multi suite In Held Twas In I from Procol's Shine On Brightly album. So here's to all the old hippies.
Edited by SteveG - November 15 2020 at 12:47 |
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Heart of the Matter
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Excellent selections both of them, Ken. In the Welch-era I like "Bermuda Triangle", and during the Buckingham tenure, "The Chain" (a little obvious?), with that anthemic bass solo by John McVie.
And Steve, relax, "In Held Twas In I" won't be forgotten, let's just take a walk in the park and smell the flowers before we all get too old for this. |
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dr wu23
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I agree Steve...lots of 'proto prog' stuff going on from many bands then from 067-69, Beatles, Procol, The Doors, Spirit, Jefferson Airplane, The Who..etc...and all of these are in the proto prog section here btw......until Crimson did their thing in '69 to cement it all. We have had this discussion here many times on who started prog and who were founders of that early proto prog thing....the truth is many bands were doing interesting things at that time. Several American folky rock bands were mentioned above....I don't think they qualify as 'proto prog' ,but again interesting things were happening to many song structures then.
Edited by dr wu23 - November 15 2020 at 11:30 |
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Heart of the Matter
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Well, I don't know, Jon Anderson mentioned as early influences Buffalo, Simon & Garfunkel and Vanilla Fudge, explaining the confluence of electric and acoustic elements in Yes. Probably those bands weren't prog yet, but they may have been prototypes for things that blossomed later within the proper genre...
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SteveG
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I prophesy disaster
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Jimi Hendrix.
According to Wikipedia, both Peter Hammill and Hugh Banton have stated that Jimi Hendrix was an influence on Van der Graaf Generator's sound, with Hammill remarking that "there'd been distortion before, but there hadn't been that real out-there attitude to sound in itself". |
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Heart of the Matter
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 01 2020 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 3117 |
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Yes sir, and David Jackson took some influence from Roland Kirk (that two saxes at a time thing).
More subversive data? Peter Gabriel is a huge fan of... Otis Redding! We construct our heroes as we want, but still they keep doing what they want, isn't that a shame? |
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Online Points: 8951 |
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Yes Welch had the more mystical numbers - the title cut to Future Games is another favourite - some great hooks throughout. And of course "Hypnotized"
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Heart of the Matter
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"Hypnotized"! What a particular vibe spreads that song... The meeting of both, Welch and Kirwan, was a moment of pure grace, I think. "Dust", for instance, so somber and self-contained, however so radiantly mystical.
Another favourite from Future Games? "Sands of times", with Mick hitting the plates as nobody ever before (or after) did it. Perfection can take simple forms sometimes... |
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kenethlevine
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yes to "Sands of Time". If Micky was around he would be all over this. I will say it again, that song is a balm for the soul. It's a portal to a better world for 7+ minutes. That moment when the first part shifts into the second is a spine tingler. I need to listen to "Dust" as I can't remember it now. Another good one from Future Games is "Women of a Thousand Years'
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SteveG
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kenethlevine
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Hey Steve! they do seem to fall in that unloved period but there are more of us than you might imagine. I do think the albums, like most Fleetwood Mac work, can be a bit uneven, no doubt at least partly the result of having 3 singers and writers who were not always on the same page . Did you ever hear Danny Kirwan's solo work? I haven't but wondered what it was like
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SteveG
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Heart of the Matter
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Well, seeing the last Steve-Ken exchange I must conclude that there might be lots of unloved music out there, that many people actually love! Why would that be? Let me guess: More haters repeating the same nonsense until we believe it, than real appreciation of the art.
Anyway, I've listened time ago to Danny Kirwan's Second Chapter, and I liked it. As I remember, the main difference with his work in the Mac lies in the nostalgic tone, something like that old vignette feel in the album of Van Dyke Parks with Brian Wilson. I'll try to recover it to check this memory... |
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Crane
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Is Baroque Pop generally considered as part of the substrate which gave rise to prog?
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“Art is the recognition of the universal presence of God.” —Ernest Hello
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Crane
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If “Surfs Up” doesn’t qualify Brian Wilson as a proto-prog genius, then I just don’t know.
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“Art is the recognition of the universal presence of God.” —Ernest Hello
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