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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
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Points: 2601
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Posted: December 29 2016 at 22:51 |
I suppose it's a bit like Jon Anderson banging his gong about god. I don't have to like or agree with the lyrical intent of any song. One Belew one from Beat I find I'm at odds with (Man With An Open Heart.).
Presumably this is about the effect of how someone preaches a religious view and the mindless automatons lap it up and mindlessly practice what someone preaches. Well if you have your own critical thinking in more or less working order you should be fine. Others won't be as their critical thought processes were still born so others can have influence on them. Most religious and political mania works based on this fulcrum.
I like a good laugh and Satanism (ooh, scary!) works fine.
Look, when I were a lad I had this same problem with Sabbath's After Forever. ery Christ / god/ whatever oriented. Just accept what is in the lyrics and do about them what thou wilt. Which in my case was putting forth the proposition to my gf at the time that this Sabbath song was more her thing than my thing. She put her hands over her ears and said she did not want to know. She was from a very fundamentalist Christian type background. All her friends and family really loved me. They got all in a huff over the Deep Purple Burn cover. I knew one chick once who wouldn't let her BF play Sabbath's Stonehenge and that's an instrumental. People really are strange.
Worry? Society has all these problems (weak people with their need to worship and demonize) anyway. Someone espousing these "ideas" will alienate (you) or enforce (someone else).
There is a lot of music to hear in this world and if you have to cut the cord on someone go ahead and then listen to Univers Zero and Present instead.
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uduwudu
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Posted: December 29 2016 at 22:53 |
That was the slow answer. The quick one is no.
Hallelujah.
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omphaloskepsis
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Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
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Points: 6794
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Posted: December 30 2016 at 18:06 |
I don't know if it's Neal's lyrics or the candied, recycled keyboards...But I have a difficult time listening for more than 15 minutes. I seem to have the same experience every time. Neal's music begins and I love it then the minutes slide by and I'm left thinking...." This is getting old really fast."
Don't get me wrong. I dig Spock's Beard. And I like Transatlantic as long as it's DVD live.
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
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Points: 1409
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Posted: December 30 2016 at 19:08 |
Thatfabulousalien wrote:
I am an atheist (since my teens) but I enjoyed the Question Mark and Sola Scriptura albums quite a lot a few years ago. Generally I find the same problem with Neal Morse (and Spocks Beard too) that I find with many modern prog bands, that he seems to be relying on the (nostalgic?) influence of older prog rock (I guess direct parallels with Yes, Gentle Giant and Genesis' styles). Ultimately I find much of his work to be a bore 
But in general I find modern christian music to be...... 
(I love a lot of religious music in the classical tradition though, especially renaissance and baroque works)
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Well, to clarify my stance further. It's the music not the lyrics/subject that I generally don't like about Morse, despite having enjoyed two of his albums. I wish there was a christian band heavily influenced by Henry Cow or Thinking Plague 
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
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andreol263
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Joined: November 28 2014
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Points: 790
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Posted: December 30 2016 at 19:57 |
Well if you don't like the lyrical content of the music and don't know how to(or don't want to) give up on the lyrics and just listen to the instruments, give up that band and go after to something else  , i did it with the pseudo-intellectual non-sense of CTTE and i'm still alive and well! :D
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strangelybrown
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Joined: March 01 2014
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 9
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Posted: January 23 2017 at 05:24 |
Have listened to just about everything Neal has ever put out several times and absolutely love it all. I'm an atheist and cannot care less about the content of his lyrics: it gives his music so much focus. It's about the chord progressions and the amazing melodies he writes. It just takes a few listens to fully appreciate much like most prog..
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miamiscot
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Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
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Points: 3625
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Posted: January 23 2017 at 14:59 |
As a Christian I am not offended by Slayer or Venom. So why should a non-Christian be offended by Neal? Lyrics work best when sung by someone with conviction.
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micky
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Posted: January 23 2017 at 15:29 |
hmmmm ......ahhhhh
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I don't know if it's Neal's lyrics or the candied, recycled keyboards...But I have a difficult time listening for more than 15 minutes. I seem to have the same experience every time. Neal's music begins and I love it then the minutes slide by and I'm left thinking...." This is getting old really fast."
Don't get me wrong. I dig Spock's Beard. And I like Transatlantic as long as it's DVD live. |
Don't get me wrong. I HATE Spock's Beard with a passion. And I like Transatlantic as long as I've got my face in a bag of cocaine and have a bottle of JD in my hand and a gun in the other. I simply think his music sucks.. all of that retro sh*t sucks. So no...has noting to do with the lyrics or whatever he thinks about God, Jesus, Religion, Trump or making America white again.
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biglevel
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Cherry Spam from Vietnam
Joined: January 23 2017
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Posted: January 23 2017 at 17:19 |
For me, non-Christians are still able to Enjoy Neal's music. Most people today, Christians or not admire songs without considering the lyrics.
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M27Barney
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Posted: January 24 2017 at 03:27 |
Funny I should see this topic, I listened to "The Whirlwind" just a few days ago. Morse produces some of the best symphonic prog that has been done outside the classic years 1970-1975. But, I have found his Christian message more and more difficult to listen to as I have got older. Prog rock has suffered the slings and arrows of many a critic admonishing the "whimsical lyrics" since they obviously just want songs to be about boy meets girl. And, with Yes particularly the very esoteric nature of Andersons lyrics makes the music in my opinion. But Morse's lyrics are just irritating Christian preaching. I tried to ignore it - but when I got to "Dancing with Eternal Glory" - It just irritated me to the point of non-enjoyment. Perhaps he should sing about other stuff, he is a great musician, but his born-again faith delusion is wasting that talent!!!
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Points: 15926
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Posted: January 24 2017 at 03:34 |
Years ago, I was a Christian person. Now - hell no. Forget it. But I still dig Spock's Beard. Understand where Morse is coming from But, I've chosen my path (to Hell, I really don't care.....) and I enjoy Morse and his musical / lyrical arrangements. Bless him !! What he does in the Prog world means a lot to me.
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M27Barney
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Posted: January 24 2017 at 06:44 |
Well basically, all that nonsense that Morse spouted when his daughter recovered from a hole in her heart. Her recovery was undoubtedly due to modern medicine and the skilled physicians who treated her (though it was claimed that the hole in her heart disappeared after Morse his wife and others prayed to Jesus) For Morse to claim that her recovery was a miracle and all due to his invisible friend Jesus made me feel very sorry for his self delusion. But obviously I was and still am very happy with his daughters long term prognosis (and probably original misdiagnosis) He can personally believe that Jesus cured his daughter, he is free to indulge in his delusional fantasy. Just keep it to yourself and don't tell us such fecking lies!!
Edited by M27Barney - January 24 2017 at 08:39
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someone_else
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Posted: January 24 2017 at 06:49 |
Who would I be to speak for non-Christians? Never mind, there is not such a thing like "Christian music" or "non-Christian music". I think that a non-Christian is at least as able to enjoy Neal Morse's music as a Christian, though the lyrics may be another story for some. Speaking for myself, I only listen to music because of the music and not because of the lyrics. Therefore I reserve only two to three hours a week for those songs with good Christian lyrics that I try to sing along with, though the music to which these are put is for the most part whining and bleating: the Sunday mornings between let's say 9:30 and 12 AM. For the rest of the week my ears would rather prefer, for instance, a Gardnerian anthem like Wassail because of the music to which it is set.
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geekfreak
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Joined: June 21 2013
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Posted: January 25 2017 at 11:42 |
M27Barney wrote:
Funny I should see this topic, I listened to "The Whirlwind" just a few days ago. Morse produces some of the best symphonic prog that has been done outside the classic years 1970-1975. But, I have found his Christian message more and more difficult to listen to as I have got older. Prog rock has suffered the slings and arrows of many a critic admonishing the "whimsical lyrics" since they obviously just want songs to be about boy meets girl. And, with Yes particularly the very esoteric nature of Andersons lyrics makes the music in my opinion. But Morse's lyrics are just irritating Christian preaching. I tried to ignore it - but when I got to "Dancing with Eternal Glory" - It just irritated me to the point of non-enjoyment. Perhaps he should sing about other stuff, he is a great musician, but his born-again faith delusion is wasting that talent!!! |
strictly speaking Neal`s lyrics are his own points of view from re-finding his faith, has I haven't truly an faith due to the darker sides of life`s downward sh*t! but if anyone else has fine with me, but his he preaching no more than Cliff Richard did. if it is irritating you easy answer "Don't Listen" if as you say non-enjoyment hmmm don't buy them...please don't take this to heart its just my own point of view. he as produces some huge symphonic PROG!!!! Solo/Spock`s Beard 
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live
Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed.
Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… <
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omphaloskepsis
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Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
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Posted: January 25 2017 at 22:07 |
geekfreak wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Funny I should see this topic, I listened to "The Whirlwind" just a few days ago. Morse produces some of the best symphonic prog that has been done outside the classic years 1970-1975. But, I have found his Christian message more and more difficult to listen to as I have got older. Prog rock has suffered the slings and arrows of many a critic admonishing the "whimsical lyrics" since they obviously just want songs to be about boy meets girl. And, with Yes particularly the very esoteric nature of Andersons lyrics makes the music in my opinion. But Morse's lyrics are just irritating Christian preaching. I tried to ignore it - but when I got to "Dancing with Eternal Glory" - It just irritated me to the point of non-enjoyment. Perhaps he should sing about other stuff, he is a great musician, but his born-again faith delusion is wasting that talent!!! |
strictly speaking Neal`s lyrics are his own points of view from re-finding his faith, has I haven't truly an faith due to the darker sides of life`s downward sh*t! but if anyone else has fine with me, but his he preaching no more than Cliff Richard did. if it is irritating you easy answer "Don't Listen" if as you say non-enjoyment hmmm don't buy them...please don't take this to heart its just my own point of view. he as produces some huge symphonic PROG!!!! Solo/Spock`s Beard  |
Barney's post mirrors my thoughts on Jon Anderson vs Neal Morse. I feel that Neal is preaching to me. Warning me of the perils of an unchristian life. I'm a fan of John Michael Talbot. He's a Catholic Monk/guitarist/singer-songwriter. To my ears, John Michael sings directly to God. Whereas Neal Morse sing/preaches about the Christian life. Jon Anderson and John Michael are worshipful. Neal not as much, and there's something about Neal's delivery of the Gospel that rubs me the wrong way.
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M27Barney
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Joined: November 09 2006
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Posted: January 26 2017 at 07:16 |
omphaloskepsis wrote:
geekfreak wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Funny I should see this topic, I listened to "The Whirlwind" just a few days ago. Morse produces some of the best symphonic prog that has been done outside the classic years 1970-1975. But, I have found his Christian message more and more difficult to listen to as I have got older. Prog rock has suffered the slings and arrows of many a critic admonishing the "whimsical lyrics" since they obviously just want songs to be about boy meets girl. And, with Yes particularly the very esoteric nature of Andersons lyrics makes the music in my opinion. But Morse's lyrics are just irritating Christian preaching. I tried to ignore it - but when I got to "Dancing with Eternal Glory" - It just irritated me to the point of non-enjoyment. Perhaps he should sing about other stuff, he is a great musician, but his born-again faith delusion is wasting that talent!!! |
strictly speaking Neal`s lyrics are his own points of view from re-finding his faith, has I haven't truly an faith due to the darker sides of life`s downward sh*t! but if anyone else has fine with me, but his he preaching no more than Cliff Richard did. if it is irritating you easy answer "Don't Listen" if as you say non-enjoyment hmmm don't buy them...please don't take this to heart its just my own point of view. he as produces some huge symphonic PROG!!!! Solo/Spock`s Beard  |
Barney's post mirrors my thoughts on Jon Anderson vs Neal Morse. I feel that Neal is preaching to me. Warning me of the perils of an unchristian life. I'm a fan of John Michael Talbot. He's a Catholic Monk/guitarist/singer-songwriter. To my ears, John Michael sings directly to God. Whereas Neal Morse sing/preaches about the Christian life. Jon Anderson and John Michael are worshipful. Neal not as much, and there's something about Neal's delivery of the Gospel that rubs me the wrong way. |
Anderson's spiritual esoteric lyrics are fine with Yes - I have no problem. Similarly, Genesis - Supper's Ready is fairly religious based (good v Evil) with quite a lot of biblical references (Apocalypse, dragon , Gog, Magog etc) - but it's mythical and non preachy - Morse's solo stuff is horribly preachy so I don't listen to it at all! I may have been a bit hasty with the Whirlwind - I reckon my irritation was with Morse's complete disregard for Darwin's 100% proven model for how we got here...Yes this is NOT more than time & chance, IT IS TIME & CHANCE get over it Neil....Mind U - SB - V is VERY Good, with no preachy lyrics....
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Biff Tannen
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 22:09 |
I was raised Catholic, and while I am still believe in "something," I am not a practicing christian.
I don't find most of Neal's lyrics to be preachy. He can get a bit overboard at times with the God and Jesus references (a lot of the Lifeline album, parts of Sola, the Testimony albums), but for the most part, he is not preachy. Preachy implies someones is trying to convert you in holier-than-thou way, and I NEVER get the vibe. His lyrics and delivery always come across in a very "this is just how I feel" heartfelt way. If you don't believe what he does, then what is the issue?
For me, when it is all said and done, the music is great enough that he could sing the phone book and it would sound great. Between Transatlantic, Spock's Beard and his solo career (counting NMB in there), he has a staggering amount of great prog music. He is among the all-time great prog artists, without a doubt.
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Gully Foyle
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Posted: February 03 2017 at 19:29 |
Nope, not even a little. Instrumental religious music is fine, but as soon as lyrics are involved, I run for them thar hills
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thepurplepiper
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Posted: February 03 2017 at 21:21 |
Of course they are. Perhaps something could be gained from listening to the music and also being a Christian; identifying with the themes and lyrics, extrapolating based on that, etc. It could very well add to your listening experience and final evaluation of his work. It certainly does not mean that people who aren't religiously inclined would be incapable of enjoying the melodies, the stories, the instrumentation, songwriting, and yes, lyrics, too. And so on.
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Dopeydoc
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Posted: February 04 2017 at 14:40 |
Dean wrote:
Tapfret wrote:
Are pessimists able to enjoy Yes? |
no. |
Yes I enjoy Yes I'm a positive pessimist: ready for the worst  and enjoying the good things of life
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