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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 06:14
LOL and in other news .. facts...today.. the sky is still blue... 

and yes.. we have a big problem with race in this country

just pointing those out to those that have been asleep for the last.. umm..  whole of their lives...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 06:19
I'm beginning to wonder whether this 'misunderstanding' of what was both said and meant by BaldFriede is deliberate.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 06:21
so an update on the state of the Senate... we have seen remarkable though not unforeseen stability in the polls. Much as the Toddlers in Chiefs approval has remained historically unique its .. lack of swings..

so is the upcoming election at the top of the ticket..  after 4 years of this circus.. there are very very few undecideds.. either you want 4 more years of Trump.. or do not and want a change.. ie.. him out of office and that not surrprisingly is breaking along with those same 4 year constant numbers for Trump...  60-40.. or if one wants to be kind..  55-45.. Trump baring a compete 2020ish event.. is gone in less than 3 months.  There is just as much chance as republicans sitting this out as Democrats... or more to the point of 2020.. just as much chance as Virus related voter suprression affecting Repubicans as they do Democrats and seen thoughts that actualy it might affect rural Trump voter more than uban/suburban Democratic votes.

anyhow..  it does look like the Presidential result is pretty well baked in.. so where does that leave the election. The real drama..  that would be control of the Senate..   so let's take a look at that...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 06:31
I've read this three times, and I've really, really tried to make heads or tails out of it, but I give up. What on Earth are you saying?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 06:45
Dems need 3 seats to take control .. assuming Biden wins.. and if he doesn't win..  well.. the Senate was not flipping either

because...  a little known change has occurred in our national politics.  The death of the split ticket voting. It stands to figure considering the hyper partisanship and polarization that this country has experienced in the last decade but make note that 2016 for the first election in our nations history where no Senator won a state, that the head of the Ticket lost

and that trend.. and it is a real one.. is extremely bad news for Trump.. and for Republicans.. for red state Democrats are pretty much a dead breed.. but there are a good number of blue/purple Republicans.. and many of them are up in 2020.. and most of the rest in less than 2 years.

so of the states in play... conventional wisdomaly that is...

Alabama - anything can happen.. it is 2020.. but baring real problems voting for the rural hay seed...rural voter suppression via the virus..  the Republicans should win this. Tuberville has led every poll..though note.. it is not a big lead.. so it is still in play

that means the Democrats have to win at least 4 Republican seats to take control..

Arizona - gone for the Republicans..  nevermind the 19 point lead Kelly lead had one poll..  it is still has been a large constant lead.  This one is flipping..

Colorado..  the same.. gone..

Maine..  tighter.. mid single digits but Gideon has led Collins in every single poll taken.  90% flip...

that leaves one needed...

North Carolina - this has been an interesting one to follow..  Cunningham has again led pretty much every poll.  But what a range of leads we have seen.. anywhere from low singles to double digit. The interesting part is overperforming Biden over Trump in this state where many polls range from dead even to slight Biden lead.  I think the polling here is not as readable as the first 4 states..   60% flip.

Iowa - not much polling done recently.. but again since the Virus hit..  Greenfield has had a small but significant edge over Ernst.  55-45 flip.. but of all the farm states.. Trump and Republicans are most likely to lose this one. 2018 results tell me this state is still very much blue at its core and 2016 might have been a bit of an outlier much as Montana was in 92.. or Indiana in 2008.  

coming back later to take on the more toss up states.. but there are quite a few.. which is why most think the Dems will take control.. and win between 5-8 Republican seat. It is a bad year to be a Republican on the same ticket as Trump...


Edited by micky - August 24 2020 at 06:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 11:10
now that was an interesting article today...  in case anyone hasn't read it 

it does say quite clearly what I've been saying for years... easily seen if one opens their eyes..

and even more subtly speaks indirectly to what Freide has been yapping about...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 12:01
^ Good article. I think these days the Dems try to govern and the Repubs rebel against them as if the Dems were their parents.

I was thinking of a supposedly hypothetical situation mentioned earlier in which the media would make a big deal out of a candidate's 'whiteness', but its not hypothetical in Memphis at all. The city is 2/3 African American and when Jim Strickland won the race for mayor, the media certainly didn't ignore the fact that he was white, no, they made a big deal out of it as if there was not much more to the guy.
Same goes for Steve Cohen, a white man who represents a mostly black congressional district. He is very popular with black voters because of his record, but you can bet we hear more about his race than anything else.
The media loves race-baiting.

Edited by Easy Money - August 24 2020 at 12:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 12:11
It looks like there's been another shooting against an unarmed black man. Get ready for not just another year of coronavirus but another year of BLM protests. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 12:31
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ Good article. I think these days the Dems try to govern and the Repubs rebel against them as if the Dems were their parents.
.

What an extremely interesting way of looking at all of this. Probably more than a kernel of truth in these.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 13:35
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ Good article. I think these days the Dems try to govern and the Repubs rebel against them as if the Dems were their parents.

I was thinking of a supposedly hypothetical situation mentioned earlier in which the media would make a big deal out of a candidate's 'whiteness', but its not hypothetical in Memphis at all. The city is 2/3 African American and when Jim Strickland won the race for mayor, the media certainly didn't ignore the fact that he was white, no, they made a big deal out of it as if there was not much more to the guy.
Same goes for Steve Cohen, a white man who represents a mostly black congressional district. He is very popular with black voters because of his record, but you can bet we hear more about his race than anything else.
The media loves race-baiting.

of course it does... it goes back to what we have talked of several times over the years. Faux is the worst offender no doubt but not the only.  The mainstream news outlets are not about reporting the news anymore.. 

it is a business.. ratings are king.. not any notion of public service and objective reporting.. that probably died with the last of Cronkites generation..

and what drives ratings.. 

conflict

as the article notes.. it is very extremely effective. .it long has been for Republicans it gets out the vote. but it is a double edged sword...we saw in 2018 and extremely likely to see in 2020 what happens when the dog whistles and conflict and division motive not just one..but both parties to turn out at vote

what it is does is stimulate interest..  ratings.. and turnout. .that is why the media stokes the racial flames. it is why politicians do it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 13:36
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

This is absolutely astonishing. BaldFriede's point is absolutely clear, and yet it's as if her thoughts seem to be so alien to others, that they're not even able to grasp the basic concept of what she's saying. How can this be?
How can you possibly not understand that in a truly equal society things like race and gender would go completely unnoticed and not even be worth mentioning?

Is this concept really so strange to you that you can't understand it?

Again, not strange or alien at all, it's just that neither of you seem to have a grasp of American reality.   You don't just sit back and hope the world sees the good & right in human equality and hope for the best.   You have to exercise those ideas proactively.   You have to act.   


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 14:16
BaldFriede was describing a hypothetical, a concept, a theoretical example when she wrote about a truly non racist country not even registering race or gender.
Of course it doesn't survive when shoe-horned onto the present social climate of any country, but that's what seems to have happened.

The second thing she said, and I agree with her 100%, is that there is hardly any difference between someone like Fox News beating the racist drum and the BLM movement demonstrations in regard to always pushing and intensifying the racial divide question to the forefront of peoples' minds.

As long as people get their faces pushed in it all the time, it will always be there.

There is no evaluation attached to this, it's just stating a fact. That's how the human mind works. It's like being told not to think of the purple elephant, but in reverse.


Edited by npjnpj - August 24 2020 at 14:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 14:26
^ Bollocks--  if true equality is just hypothetical and theoretical then why bother participating in history or discussing it at all.   We're trying to actually move things forward in our time, and that's a rough business full of inequalities and setbacks all along the way.

Screw theory, and get serious.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 14:26
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

This is absolutely astonishing. BaldFriede's point is absolutely clear, and yet it's as if her thoughts seem to be so alien to others, that they're not even able to grasp the basic concept of what she's saying. How can this be?
How can you possibly not understand that in a truly equal society things like race and gender would go completely unnoticed and not even be worth mentioning?

Is this concept really so strange to you that you can't understand it?

Again, not strange or alien at all, it's just that neither of you seem to have a grasp of American reality.   You don't just sit back and hope the world sees the good & right in human equality and hope for the best.   You have to exercise those ideas proactively.   You have to act.   



Then act!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 14:28
Atavachron: Seriously? That's your take? Yikes.


Edited by npjnpj - August 24 2020 at 14:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 14:39
Yeah that's my "take".   Deal with it.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 15:23
Already have.

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Bollocks--  if true equality is just hypothetical and theoretical then why bother participating in history or discussing it at all.   We're trying to actually move things forward in our time, and that's a rough business full of inequalities and setbacks all along the way.

Screw theory, and get serious.





Now this one is especially weird. Of course true equality is just hypothetical and theoretical. What else can it be? It doesn't exist and never has.

I don't know of any society in human history where equality has existed since the dawn of man. Even the smallest enclaves have been corrupted as soon as they interconnect with others. True equality seems to be against human nature, and only the strongest collectives manage to create the illusion of some slight equality, but the pressure working against it is so strong that it easily collapses. As we see under Trump right now. It takes tremendous and constant effort to fight these primal urges for supremacy over others and provide a society where the basest instincts are glossed over.

So personally I don't see that any true equality worth talking about will exist for generations, possibly ever. The fight for it is good though, because it tends to keep the worst excesses at bay, and I think that's the best we can hope for.

I used to think that upbringing and education might be a road forward, but regrettably that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems to be part of the genetic code.

I can only think of one circumstance where true equality might be reached in the far future, and that would be if the human race genetically intermingled to such an extent that there would only be one mixed race left. But even that wouldn't be true equality because what would it be equal to? There's only one left.

So then the human race would probably find something else to tear itself apart over.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 16:05
^True equality will probably always elude us because you are always going to have the haves and have nots, rich and poor, leaders and followers, smart and not so smart, etc. However, that doesn't mean that in theory people can't be treated as equals but usually that's not what happens. We all have biases and opinions based on beliefs that have been shaped through the media, parental upbringing, peers etc. Even if some of that changed we just don't see people as equal because people are different and to some some of those differences make you better or worse depending on who you are. 




Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - August 24 2020 at 16:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 16:34
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Already have.

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Bollocks--  if true equality is just hypothetical and theoretical then why bother participating in history or discussing it at all.   We're trying to actually move things forward in our time, and that's a rough business full of inequalities and setbacks all along the way.

Screw theory, and get serious.





Now this one is especially weird. Of course true equality is just hypothetical and theoretical. What else can it be? It doesn't exist and never has.

I don't know of any society in human history where equality has existed since the dawn of man. Even the smallest enclaves have been corrupted as soon as they interconnect with others. True equality seems to be against human nature, and only the strongest collectives manage to create the illusion of some slight equality, but the pressure working against it is so strong that it easily collapses. As we see under Trump right now. It takes tremendous and constant effort to fight these primal urges for supremacy over others and provide a society where the basest instincts are glossed over.

So personally I don't see that any true equality worth talking about will exist for generations, possibly ever. The fight for it is good though, because it tends to keep the worst excesses at bay, and I think that's the best we can hope for.

I used to think that upbringing and education might be a road forward, but regrettably that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems to be part of the genetic code.

I can only think of one circumstance where true equality might be reached in the far future, and that would be if the human race genetically intermingled to such an extent that there would only be one mixed race left. But even that wouldn't be true equality because what would it be equal to? There's only one left.

So then the human race would probably find something else to tear itself apart over.




I sincerely doubt it could be exactly defined what "true equality" is supposed to be; I am very certain it would be a case of "two people, three opinions".


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 22:41
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

BaldFriede was describing a hypothetical, a concept, a theoretical example when she wrote about a truly non racist country not even registering race or gender.
Of course it doesn't survive when shoe-horned onto the present social climate of any country, but that's what seems to have happened.

The second thing she said, and I agree with her 100%, is that there is hardly any difference between someone like Fox News beating the racist drum and the BLM movement demonstrations in regard to always pushing and intensifying the racial divide question to the forefront of peoples' minds.

As long as people get their faces pushed in it all the time, it will always be there.

There is no evaluation attached to this, it's just stating a fact. That's how the human mind works. It's like being told not to think of the purple elephant, but in reverse.

Now that is just moving goalposts. Did some of the BLM protesters or supporters say anti-white stuff?  Yup.  Did they weaponize anti-racist rhetoric for their ends?  Yup.  

But what part of celebrating Kamala Harris as the first black woman on a VP ticket is anti-white or weaponizing anti-racist rhetoric?  It isn't.  Friede suggested Harris would find it hurtful to have her accomplishment linked to her race but Harris is the first to mention and proudly own her African-American heritage.  And the black community had asked that Biden nominate a black woman as VP.  They cannot speak for all black people but they were speaking for a very significant bloc within it.  Having a black woman as VP is not going to solve everything but the thinking is at least having them in positions of power will gradually move the conversation around to an allocation of resources that's less harmful to poor minorities. 

Consider here that Asians came to America long, long after black people and quickly rose up to 'model minority' status.  The message clearly is racists have a particular problem with black people and are happy to do business with others.  In such a scenario, a color blind rhetoric falls flat because America has had 200 years to learn to start treating black people as equals.  When indeed a black person can be nominated to a VP or Presidential ticket with it being an uneventful affair is when we can say that the person's black identity has no significance and should not be played up.  Note that Harris is half-Indian and married to a white man.
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