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Ambient Hurricanes View Drop Down
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 20:54
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Anyway...it's going to screw up the economy.  But we'll survive.  It's not like we've never had a recession before.  I'm still thankful to live in the most affluent nation in the world, where poor people live like rich ones even during recessions, compared to the millions of suffering people in other nations around the world.  When you think about it from that perspective, the fiscal cliff doesn't seem so frightening.

^ Of course this statement forgets about the 700,000 people who are homeless and usually have nothing. Nothing is nothing even in the most affluent nation. They are the truly forgotten.


No it doesn't.  Homeless people in America are better off than many poor people in other countries.  At least here we have homeless shelters and charities.  If you get sick you can check yourself into an emergency room and they won't turn you away.  In many countries around the world, poor people live in even greater misery than our homeless, especially in countries like India, where some, the "untouchables," are social pariahs so much that no one will stoop to help them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to trivialize the very real plight of the homeless.  But its a fact that in America, our poor live in relative affluence compared to the rest of the world.


Edited by Ambient Hurricanes - December 28 2012 at 22:03
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 21:02
I bow to your knowledge of homelessness.
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 22:01
^Your sarcasm is unhelpful.  All I'm trying to say is that we should be grateful to live in a country where even the poor live in relative affluence.  Is that supposed to be controversial? Confused


Edited by Ambient Hurricanes - December 28 2012 at 22:02
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 22:10
Other countries, developed countries, have far less homeless. It's rather sad taking pride on how well the thousands of homeless people live in the US. I'd rather take pride if there were very few of them.
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 22:14
^I was comparing the US to the many less developed countries in the world where poverty is rampant.  Of course I would love to have fewer homeless people in America.  I'm not taking pride in how well they live, merely expressing gratitude to live in the US.  That doesn't mean I don't want to help the poor - both here and in other nations.
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 22:59
It was not sarcasm. If your experience of homelessness is words on a page then you really do not know what it is. To compare it to the plight of others in poverty in other countries without really knowing what it is seems like a stretch.
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 23:02
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Other countries, developed countries, have far less homeless. It's rather sad taking pride on how well the thousands of homeless people live in the US. I'd rather take pride if there were very few of them.


Watch it Teo.  You're in serious jeopardy of slipping back to the left.  Tongue

Well said though. 
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 23:17
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

It was not sarcasm. If your experience of homelessness is words on a page then you really do not know what it is. To compare it to the plight of others in poverty in other countries without really knowing what it is seems like a stretch.


Yes, it was sarcasm.  Your exact words were:

Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

I bow to your knowledge of homelessness


Based on your more recent post, you obviously did not mean what you said, and were instead insinuating the opposite.  Thank you for clarifying, though, so that I could respond appropriately:

You act as if I'm trying to trivialize the sufferings of the homeless.  I'm not.  I'm writing down my observation concerning the state of poverty in the US compared to that of undeveloped countries, and expressing gratitude for living in a relatively affluent country.  I don't know of any other way to get that observation across on this forum besides putting "words on a page." 

If comparing poverty in America to poverty in other countries is offensive, then I don't know what we can discuss anymore.  I can assure you that I'm not brushing aside America's homeless at all; my knowledge of poverty around the world does not lessen my desire to help the poor in America, but only heightens my compassion for others. 

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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 23:25
To use a statistical yardstick on pain and suffering, is that possible? When I said words on a page I meant if you have not been homeless in America then you cannot know what it means. Experience trumps statistics. Zero still is zero the world around. If you don't think america has "untouchables" then you are not in touch with the real america.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 23:38
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:


Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Other countries, developed countries, have far less homeless. It's rather sad taking pride on how well the thousands of homeless people live in the US. I'd rather take pride if there were very few of them.
Watch it Teo.  You're in serious jeopardy of slipping back to the left.  TongueWell said though. 
Don't worry Doc. The left is secure from my infiltration . There is no proper "right" though and I don't think believing in libertarian values should equal taking pride in homeless that live better than those in other countries. Left or right or whatever you color it, the only scenario that should bring about pride is close to zero homelesness.

Also, AmbientHurricanes, comparing the US to less developed nations is rather taking an easy out. Comparing homeless life (whatever it is) to "first world" countries would make much more sense. The US was the richest nation on Earth, wasn't it?
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2012 at 16:14
^Tim Leary - Have you ever been homeless?  If you have, then I'll accept your reasoning, if not, I don't see how it has anything to say to my viewpoint.  No, I don't have experience as a homeless person.  That doesn't mean that I cannot write anything about it.  Much of what everyone says is based on their observations/readings, not on personal experience.

The T - It would be an easy out if I was trying to say that we don't really have a poverty problem.  I didn't say that. 
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2012 at 17:12
It is not necessary or important for you to accept my reasoning. 
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2012 at 23:17
^Well then why are we having this discussion?  We might not come to an agreement, but at least I would like you to understand the point I'm trying to make, and I would like to understand the point you're trying to make.
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2012 at 23:18
In defense of J's original point, I'd rather be a homeless man here than a homeless man in Uganda.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 01:54
I'd rather not be homeless
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 02:15
Oh, did you mean this original point?

 I'm still thankful to live in the most affluent nation in the world, where poor people live like rich ones even during recessions, compared to the millions of suffering people in other nations around the world.  When you think about it from that perspective, the fiscal cliff doesn't seem so frightening.

Somebody should tell the homeless in America to quit taking it so seriously, after all, by the original poster's opinion they live like rich ones.
Only someone who has never had the experience could reason that way.......here in America or in Uganda.
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 06:47
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:


Somebody should tell the homeless in America to quit taking it so seriously, after all, by the original poster's opinion they live like rich ones.
Only someone who has never had the experience could reason that way.......here in America or in Uganda.


That isn't at all what he said nor meant- stop being ridiculous.

I've never been to the moon, but I have a pretty good understanding about what it's like there.  I know I would not want to be homeless on the moon. 

And the "fiscal cliff" is a scaremongering smokescreen meant to enable our runaway political parties to continue to hold each other in contempt with impunity.
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Points: 1940 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 07:21
Homeless people in Uganda should feel lucky they don't live on the moon. They'd really be screwed if they were homeless up there.
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Points: 1708 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 09:52
NY Times 2012 Year in Pictures
I was looking through these yesterday and thinking to myself how out of whack American's perspective is when you take a look at the rest of the world.  When Spain has an unemployment rate of 50% among young people, and we bitch and moan about the fact that ours has ONLY improved to 7.6% (I think I remember that's where it's gotten to at this point, but correct me if I'm wrong), and when France elects a member of the Socialist party as their President and we have people raving on and on and on about how our President is secretly socialist (he's not)...yeah, we need to look outside our ignorant little bubble.

EDIT: put a link in originally, and it never showed up.  I've been having problems trying to post in the forum with Firefox lately.  Like, I'll click into the message box, and it won't let me type.  Anyone else have this issue?


Edited by dtguitarfan - December 30 2012 at 09:53
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 11:11
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

If you are subject to your taxes going up,when you file in 2014 it won't mean a damn thing until then.  If you are dependent on EUC, you get shoved off the cliff and won't be able to even scrape by.


Erm...income tax?  It gets taken right out of your paycheck.  Sales tax?

Some think that going  off the fiscal cliff will actually be good, in the long run, for the economy.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, any long term benefit of the fiscal cliff will be negated because the government will just try to reverse the damage and kick the can down the road again instead of really making the structural changes the the fiscal cliff is supposed to demand.

Anyway...it's going to screw up the economy.  But we'll survive.  It's not like we've never had a recession before.  I'm still thankful to live in the most affluent nation in the world, where poor people live like rich ones even during recessions, compared to the millions of suffering people in other nations around the world.  When you think about it from that perspective, the fiscal cliff doesn't seem so frightening.

So I am ridiculous and he never said it. Oh that isn't what he meant. Quote, do you know what that means?
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