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The T 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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 Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:37 |
Actually, I know the solution to the problem Pat... All airlines (which are privately owned, most of them here at least) should release a statement saying that they've decided to have all passengers in their planes scanned as a requirement to board. Voila! A private decision that you will have to respect if you want to access the good that these market providers offer you... If not, you're free to travel by foot, car, train, boat, horse, camel, or scooter if you're such a hipster... 
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:39 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I wish guns were allowed on planes. Then I would actually feel safer.
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I always wanted some crazy guy to open a hole in the plane's body... I always felt airplane's windows were not big enough to let me appreciate the landscape..
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:39 |
The T wrote:
Actually, I know the solution to the problem Pat... All airlines (which are privately owned, most of them here at least) should release a statement saying that they've decided to have all passengers in their planes scanned as a requirement to board. Voila! A private decision that you will have to respect if you want to access the good that these market providers offer you... If not, you're free to travel by foot, car, train, boat, horse, camel, or scooter if you're such a hipster... |
Didn't I just agree to that? Kick the TSA out and let private employers do what they want to protect us. I'm fine with that. I would actually feel safer.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:41 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I wish guns were allowed on planes. Then I would actually feel safer.
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I always wanted some crazy guy to open a hole in the plane's body... I always felt airplane's windows were not big enough to let me appreciate the landscape.. |
You do see how ridiculous your argument is right? First off, a hole in the side of a plane doesn't create a holywood style pressure difference ripping the plane to shreds. Secondly, disallowing guns on planes leads to things like 9-11 when you have a group of lawbreakers who find themselves armed because they disregard the law, and a group of law abiding citizens who are now the victims.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:42 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Actually, I know the solution to the problem Pat... All airlines (which are privately owned, most of them here at least) should release a statement saying that they've decided to have all passengers in their planes scanned as a requirement to board. Voila! A private decision that you will have to respect if you want to access the good that these market providers offer you... If not, you're free to travel by foot, car, train, boat, horse, camel, or scooter if you're such a hipster... |
Didn't I just agree to that? Kick the TSA out and let private employers do what they want to protect us. I'm fine with that. I would actually feel safer.
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Your post came while I was writing that...
I wonder why private employees would not be just as attracted as government ones by that negative-color image of your sword though...
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:45 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I wish guns were allowed on planes. Then I would actually feel safer.
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I always wanted some crazy guy to open a hole in the plane's body... I always felt airplane's windows were not big enough to let me appreciate the landscape.. |
You do see how ridiculous your argument is right?
First off, a hole in the side of a plane doesn't create a holywood style pressure difference ripping the plane to shreds.
Secondly, disallowing guns on planes leads to things like 9-11 when you have a group of lawbreakers who find themselves armed because they disregard the law, and a group of law abiding citizens who are now the victims.
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I never said the hollywood style pressure problem would occur... well, that depends, maybe some looney from idaho or something will take a bazooka in the plane ...
It's an interesting idea but I really don't want planes to become western-style bars... A plane should take you from place A to place B. I favor gun-control in planes.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:46 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Actually, I know the solution to the problem Pat... All airlines (which are privately owned, most of them here at least) should release a statement saying that they've decided to have all passengers in their planes scanned as a requirement to board. Voila! A private decision that you will have to respect if you want to access the good that these market providers offer you... If not, you're free to travel by foot, car, train, boat, horse, camel, or scooter if you're such a hipster... |
Didn't I just agree to that? Kick the TSA out and let private employers do what they want to protect us. I'm fine with that. I would actually feel safer.
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Your post came while I was writing that...
I wonder why private employees would not be just as attracted as government ones by that negative-color image of your sword though... |
I never claimed they wouldn't, but there would be some important differences. Firstly it probably wouldn't exist because a great majority of people are against these scanners and they don't make anybody's flight safer. Thus private employers would be unlikely to follow this practice. It would also introduce some heterogeneity. With one gigantic federal agency, every policy is the same for every airline giving you the choice of fly or don't fly. Instead, private industries would have policies which differ and which one can chose betwee. Most importantly maybe, private companies actually have the right to do such things. The government has none without a warrant and reasonable suspicion.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:47 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I wish guns were allowed on planes. Then I would actually feel safer.
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I always wanted some crazy guy to open a hole in the plane's body... I always felt airplane's windows were not big enough to let me appreciate the landscape.. |
You do see how ridiculous your argument is right?
First off, a hole in the side of a plane doesn't create a holywood style pressure difference ripping the plane to shreds.
Secondly, disallowing guns on planes leads to things like 9-11 when you have a group of lawbreakers who find themselves armed because they disregard the law, and a group of law abiding citizens who are now the victims.
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I never said the hollywood style pressure problem would occur... well, that depends, maybe some looney from idaho or something will take a bazooka in the plane ...
It's an interesting idea but I really don't want planes to become western-style bars... A plane should take you from place A to place B. I favor gun-control in planes. |
It's funny that people still think gun free zones accomplish something. You should probably look into the wild west and see how it operated. It's not the lawless place statists would have you believe.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:50 |
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What about jurisdiction? The moment your plane enters the ocean and we're not in US airspace anymore what will we do regarding people with guns? mmm... Maybe a universal standard would be the best. It's safe to say that said standard would favor gun-control in planes. For flights inside the US, let's have your armed-passengers style... Puts some sauce into an otherwise boring flight...
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 13:52 |
The T wrote:
What about jurisdiction? The moment your plane enters the ocean and we're not in US airspace anymore what will we do regarding people with guns? mmm... Maybe a universal standard would be the best. It's safe to say that said standard would favor gun-control in planes. For flights inside the US, let's have your armed-passengers style... Puts some sauce into an otherwise boring flight... |
What does that have to do with? I don't see how flying into international waters effects anything.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 14:05 |
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Eventually you'll fly over lands where guns are illegal... That's why the standard for international flights has to be the same.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 14:13 |
The T wrote:
Eventually you'll fly over lands where guns are illegal... That's why the standard for international flights has to be the same. |
That's no different than any customs issue with international flights. It will of course be handled accordingly.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 14:15 |
The T wrote:
Eventually you'll fly over lands where guns are illegal... That's why the standard for international flights has to be the same. |
Why would anyone want to fly to a country where guns are illegal? 
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 14:18 |
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
Eventually you'll fly over lands where guns are illegal... That's why the standard for international flights has to be the same. |
Why would anyone want to fly to a country where guns are illegal?
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We wouldn't want you here anyway 
You would probably have your gun taken off you awww
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Help me I'm falling!
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 14:27 |
The T wrote:
Pat, scanning people before entering an airplane is one of those instances when I don't have so much problems with people intruding in one's freedom. Please, I prefer to let myself be scanned than allow a muslim (or any other kind) terrorist with a bomb in my plane... I know, I know, "the moment you sacrifice your liberty for safety everything is lost"... But can we make little, little exceptions? |
TSA has never caught a single terrorist, and yet we've managed to go almost a decade without another attack. The only reason they're using the scanners and molesting you if you refuse is because they can, not because there's any serious reason to believe that we are under greater threat of attack. And even if we were, I view actually being afraid in the US of a terrorist attack killing you as emotional and illogical. Airport security is inherently either security theater or wildly intrusive, and even being incredibly intrusive is not a guarantee of anything. Drop the money for the stupid scanners and pretty much all of TSA's attempts at security and put it into the FBI, which actually works.
If somebody still wanted to paralyze air travel, they would just detonate a bomb in the concourse on Thanksgiving or any other busy day, no need to involve a plane at all.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 15:55 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
The T wrote:
Pat, scanning people before entering an airplane is one of those instances when I don't have so much problems with people intruding in one's freedom. Please, I prefer to let myself be scanned than allow a muslim (or any other kind) terrorist with a bomb in my plane... I know, I know, "the moment you sacrifice your liberty for safety everything is lost"... But can we make little, little exceptions? |
TSA has never caught a single terrorist, and yet we've managed to go almost a decade without another attack. The only reason they're using the scanners and molesting you if you refuse is because they can, not because there's any serious reason to believe that we are under greater threat of attack. And even if we were, I view actually being afraid in the US of a terrorist attack killing you as emotional and illogical. Airport security is inherently either security theater or wildly intrusive, and even being incredibly intrusive is not a guarantee of anything. Drop the money for the stupid scanners and pretty much all of TSA's attempts at security and put it into the FBI, which actually works.
If somebody still wanted to paralyze air travel, they would just detonate a bomb in the concourse on Thanksgiving or any other busy day, no need to involve a plane at all. |
Or detonate a bomb in a mall on black friday. Disrupting the commercial sector would be even more destructive than flight disruption.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 17:13 |
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Oh yes, bringing down the two tallest buildings in NY with 3000 people inside was not disruptive at all...
Relax, I see some of your points. I hate invasion of privacy. But then again, there are some places and instances when liberty might have to take second place.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 17:21 |
The T wrote:
Oh yes, bringing down the two tallest buildings in NY with 3000 people inside was not disruptive at all... |
What? We're talking about blowing up the airport itself, not another building with a plane. And 9/11 would have been a lot less disruptive if people were more logical and thought about the likelihood of dying in another terrorist attack versus the likelihood of being killed in a car accident.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 17:24 |
The T wrote:
Oh yes, bringing down the two tallest buildings in NY with 3000 people inside was not disruptive at all...
Relax, I see some of your points. I hate invasion of privacy. But then again, there are some places and instances when liberty might have to take second place. |
Last I checked it didn't require a bomb. You don't seem too concerned about invasion of privacy. It would seem someone who was would need some sort of evidence that these means actually improve safety in some way, and then determine the relative trade-off.
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - November 15 2010 at 17:25
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: November 15 2010 at 17:43 |
I'm not so big on the idea of people carrying guns on planes. Pilots/flight attendants I could be fine with. But if y'all were saying it'd be fine to have anyone keep guns with em on flights...I'd have to respectfully say no way nutjob
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