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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2023 at 01:47
Originally posted by Zappastolethetowels Zappastolethetowels wrote:

Supertramp are closer to ELO, APP, and the Moody Blues of the time than Prog. Supertramp is more interesting tome than all the bands mentioned. 
Prog live albums should not be counted as part of a studio discography! They're not. Confused
I find the run of Poseidon through Islands more engaging than the debut of KC. No objection here. 
Rush and Dream Theater never made a timeless record (I hope I don't summon Big Sky LOL) I think both did, but then again it's all subjective here. 
Yes made nothing great post-Relayer. Drama is a great album. I also enjoy the Rabin era. Not great, but enjoyable.
Canterbury prog is underrated and Camel are not Canterbury! Who says they are Canterbury? 
ATOTT by Genesis is a snooze fest! One of my favorites from them. LOL
Soft Machine's Fourth is their masterpiece! I haven't listened to it in a long time, I will give it a listen as soon as I can. 
D. Allen's Gong was lame (with the exception of the first 2) - The You Trilogy is great IMO. 
You are hard pressed to find a M. Davis record you can sit through and thoroughly enjoy! I love J. Johnson though! - I did sit through several of his albums and I enjoyed a few quite a bit. 
Most Krautrock is aimless goofy noodling or just pathetic! Goofy, maybe but pathetic?! How and why? 
75, 77-79 were best periods for Tull's music! I don't know about that, but Heavy Horses is one of my favorites from them. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zappastolethetowels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2023 at 01:17
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Zappastolethetowels Zappastolethetowels wrote:

Supertramp are closer to ELO, APP, and the Moody Blues of the time than Prog.
Prog live albums should not be counted as part of a studio discography!
I find the run of Poseidon through Islands more engaging than the debut of KC.
Rush and Dream Theater never made a timeless record (I hope I don't summon Big Sky LOL)
Yes made nothing great post-Relayer.
Canterbury prog is underrated and Camel are not Canterbury! 
ATOTT by Genesis is a snooze fest!
Soft Machine's Fourth is their masterpiece!
D. Allen's Gong was lame (with the exception of the first 2)
You are hard pressed to find a M. Davis record you can sit through and thoroughly enjoy! I love J. Johnson though!
Most Krautrock is aimless goofy noodling or just pathetic!
75, 77-79 were best periods for Tull's music! 


Genesis were closer to APP, ELO and Supertramp than they were to prog (ELP and Yes). Song writing v instrumental based prog.Genesis were great song writers and so were Supertramp. I would even go as far as to say that Crime Of The Century is better than SEBTP.
The live album thing only seems to happen with Pink Floyd
Canterbury is a snooze fest as are Camel most of the time (prog's equivalent of elevator music)
ATTWT actually has the 'balls' that a lot of Genesis lacks and no stupid tracks like The Battle Of Epping Forest thank god
Soft Machine have a lot of noodling, even on PA no one really cares about them!
No one really cares about Gong either
Miles Davis is not prog (not a hot take)
Krautrock - don't know why anyone listens to it (even Germans hate it mostly)
Yeah right lol

A few more of my own personal hot takes:
Jazz fusion/jazz rock is not prog
''Prog'' does not equal progressive music ( and doesn't need to)
Progressive music can happen in any genre, its not the prisoner of a few English seventies bands that in themselves didn't invent music
Rush were as progressive as any band in the late seventies (but there was bugger all else!)
Marillion were more interesting than Genesis (Forgotten Sons on its own is more interesting than the vast amount of even classic era Genesis)

Later Genesis falls into that sphere, certainly not Selling... therefore you can't compare it to Crime... bc we're talking different styles of music.
I don't think you gave Canterbury a fair shot - there is more out there beyond Caravan and the Softs. As for Camel, their career is too varied to be lumped into sounding like elevator music. 
Nobody on PA cares about the Softs and Gong - are you sure?? 
What's so funny about late 70's Tull?

As for your takes...
1. really, doesn't make a difference to me in the least
2. that comes down to personal convenience - you can't change people
3. sure, but Prog Rock happened to be invented and excelled at by the British
4. Rush are still living off the fame and fortunes of being the first to extend repetitive riffage upon a broad synthetic canvas and then calling it prog metal. Hey look Alex, we are pioneers now! Just not long ago, we sounded like a garage band until a great manager decided he can make a load of a buck letting us play however we want! Ermm
5. Can't comment as I don't know Marillion well, but that in itself sounds highly unlikely. You can't just plainly dismiss those legendary 5 albums! Confused

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 23:44
Originally posted by Zappastolethetowels Zappastolethetowels wrote:

Supertramp are closer to ELO, APP, and the Moody Blues of the time than Prog.
Prog live albums should not be counted as part of a studio discography!
I find the run of Poseidon through Islands more engaging than the debut of KC.
Rush and Dream Theater never made a timeless record (I hope I don't summon Big Sky LOL)
Yes made nothing great post-Relayer.
Canterbury prog is underrated and Camel are not Canterbury! 
ATOTT by Genesis is a snooze fest!
Soft Machine's Fourth is their masterpiece!
D. Allen's Gong was lame (with the exception of the first 2)
You are hard pressed to find a M. Davis record you can sit through and thoroughly enjoy! I love J. Johnson though!
Most Krautrock is aimless goofy noodling or just pathetic!
75, 77-79 were best periods for Tull's music! 


Genesis were closer to APP, ELO and Supertramp than they were to prog (ELP and Yes). Song writing v instrumental based prog.Genesis were great song writers and so were Supertramp. I would even go as far as to say that Crime Of The Century is better than SEBTP.
The live album thing only seems to happen with Pink Floyd
Canterbury is a snooze fest as are Camel most of the time (prog's equivalent of elevator music)
ATTWT actually has the 'balls' that a lot of Genesis lacks and no stupid tracks like The Battle Of Epping Forest thank god
Soft Machine have a lot of noodling, even on PA no one really cares about them!
No one really cares about Gong either
Miles Davis is not prog (not a hot take)
Krautrock - don't know why anyone listens to it (even Germans hate it mostly)
Yeah right lol

A few more of my own personal hot takes:
Jazz fusion/jazz rock is not prog
''Prog'' does not equal progressive music ( and doesn't need to)
Progressive music can happen in any genre, its not the prisoner of a few English seventies bands that in themselves didn't invent music
Rush were as progressive as any band in the late seventies (but there was bugger all else!)
Marillion were more interesting than Genesis (Forgotten Sons on its own is more interesting than the vast amount of even classic era Genesis)








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lumenko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 17:31
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Lumenko Lumenko wrote:

Dream Theater is the greatest progressive act in American music history and the only American prog band on par with the British "Big Four".

Frank Zappa is winning that one all day long but after that there is a major vacuum.(personally I believe most US bands that started as prog gave it up far too quickly)

Dream Theater are important certainly although they have released a lot of albums that divide opinion especially in recent years. They started in the 80's and are widely respected for Images and Words and Awake. I also believe (my ''hot take'') that A Change Of Seasons is the greatest prog metal track and the sub genre's equivalent of Suppers Ready.
Apart from Zappa's undoubted pioneering role in genres like experimental rock and jazz-rock, I think Dream Theater is even a greater American prog act than Frank Zappa because too much of his material is out-of-date comedy with politically and sexually explicit jokes that have long since lost their provocativeness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 16:49
Keith Emerson's place in prog history was cemented when, as a youth, he was on date at a local fair and told the young lady he was with that he'd really like her to put her hand on his organ. But due the roar of the crowd she misheard and the next day she gave Keith a Hammond Organ.
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zappastolethetowels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 16:20
Supertramp are closer to ELO, APP, and the Moody Blues of the time than Prog.
Prog live albums should not be counted as part of a studio discography!
I find the run of Poseidon through Islands more engaging than the debut of KC.
Rush and Dream Theater never made a timeless record (I hope I don't summon Big Sky LOL)
Yes made nothing great post-Relayer.
Canterbury prog is underrated and Camel are not Canterbury! 
ATOTT by Genesis is a snooze fest!
Soft Machine's Fourth is their masterpiece!
D. Allen's Gong was lame (with the exception of the first 2)
You are hard pressed to find a M. Davis record you can sit through and thoroughly enjoy! I love J. Johnson though!
Most Krautrock is aimless goofy noodling or just pathetic!
75, 77-79 were best periods for Tull's music! 



Edited by Zappastolethetowels - November 29 2023 at 16:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 16:11
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

David Gilmour's second album About Face is underappreciated, deserves better. 

Agreed. It's my favorite of his discography, i.e., I listen to it more than any of his other solo efforts. The faster I put spoons in my mouth, the sooner I can become a Henderson stack.

It's my favorite too.  We played this last weekend.  So good!Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zappastolethetowels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 15:59
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I always thought it was a giant pair pants where you can fit your whole body into one leg.

You're probably right! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 15:20
I always thought it was a giant pair pants where you can fit your whole body into one leg.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 15:18
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Roy Harper, Peter Hammill & Robert Wyatt are the three worst singers in prog!

A hot take for sure, but does anyone agree? Ermm
I like Hammill, not familiar with Harper, but I agree Wyatt has a difficult voice to acclimate to.

However, the worst singer in prog is IQ's Peter Nicholls. Disapprove


Edited by Grumpyprogfan - November 29 2023 at 16:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 15:16
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

David Gilmour's second album About Face is underappreciated, deserves better. 

Agreed. It's my favorite of his discography, i.e., I listen to it more than any of his other solo efforts. The faster I put spoons in my mouth, the sooner I can become a Henderson stack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 15:13
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Abacab is the second best Genesis album. Approve


I was wondering when this album would make its appearance. I wouldn't go as far as you, but it's also a favorite of mine. Who Dunnit? is a great tune too! There are a lot of pre-arranged sofa cushions in my non-commutative junk drawer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 15:08
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Roy Harper, Peter Hammill & Robert Wyatt are the three worst singers in prog!

A hot take for sure, but does anyone agree? Ermm


I'd take those 3 ahead of most vocalists, all excellent.
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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 15:02
Originally posted by Zappastolethetowels Zappastolethetowels wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Roy Harper, Peter Hammill & Robert Wyatt are the three most unique singers in prog! No hot take btw

 fixed it for you Wink
Yes, they're certainly unique. There's no argument from me. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zappastolethetowels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 14:56
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Roy Harper, Peter Hammill & Robert Wyatt are the three most unique singers in prog! No hot take btw

 fixed it for you Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 14:36
Roy Harper, Peter Hammill & Robert Wyatt are the three worst singers in prog!

A hot take for sure, but does anyone agree? Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 14:08
I said something similar before but I'll say it again. Prog didn't make some big comeback in the 90s. It was still largely underground just like in the 80s. I know there's this big conception that prog came back to life with Anglagard or Dream Theater or whatever but it only made the older fans pay attention more. Nothing more and nothing less imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 12:29
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Thrash Metal should be called Trash Metal.

That's harsh, there's metal out there much much worse than thrash. And I've heard my share of thrash I disliked (a lot of time poor vocals or badly produced), but I still would never be harsh on the genre. 
(I made a thrash list on a metal site at some point, still came up with 70 something albums I thought were great). Smile
I once made a trash list of Thrash Metal, Death Metal & Black Metal which all belonged in the bin. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 12:21
Here's one, the flower kings are the most generic prog band I've ever heard, and i've heard many a generic prog band
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2023 at 12:20
^ I think you missed the - awkward, maybe - point of this thread: venting unpopular opinions about prog. Not very elegant, I agree, but it could be worse:

The most popular prog bands since the 90s are not progressive at all... Tongue





The razamataz is a pain in the bum
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