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Angelo 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
 Posted: January 25 2015 at 04:32 |
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Maybe, but if a reviewer really wants to do more than just dump his thoughts, i.e. have others benefit from it, he'll see it as a reason to improve and not to quit. That's when a thread like this becomes more meaninful - for the reviewer rather than the visitor.
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 04:49 |
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^ I laud the aim of course as something like this is long overdue, but you seem to have more faith in the motives and intelligence of the members than I
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 06:19 |
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 you were always the wise one  |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 06:35 |
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Leave it micky. No need to derail this again.
Edited by Angelo - January 25 2015 at 06:36 |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 06:39 |
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Intelligence is no issue here, online social skills are a bigger danger. See your point, but I'm getting fed up with the way we seem to try to please the minority rather than focus on our goals - on PA as well as in saily life. Not doing something because one small subset of people may not like it is not exactly progress... |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 06:51 |
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My hard earned repuation as master thread derailer preceeds me I see. However it wasn't my intent to derail. in the spirit of that. I'll toss out my two cents. It is a bad idea. Some could care less what others think of them, however some do and giving the ability to give thumbs up and thumbs down could, and likely would knowing how some people's 'dislike' of a review is not the review itself but based of love of the album getting panned. It creates division man, and one of the MANY great things about this forum is the lack of that, as well as cliques of popular folk so to speak. Perhaps thumbs up only, but again that serves no purpose, it is as it always has been IMO. If you don't like a particullar review of an album, then one should get off their ass and write a review (subtly and intelligently) debunking the review in question. As far as showing the love, that is what PM's are for, hell.. we even have a thread especially for giving slaps on the back for reviews and reviewers we like. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 06:59 |
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Let's leave the thumbs up or down to Yahoo! and their ilk. This is a serious site, and appreciation (or lack thereof) of reviews can be expressed in different ways. PA is different from other websites in that it offers its members the opportunity to write a review without having to be vetted beforehand - as long as they follow a few simple guidelines. While, of course, this allows subpar reviews to be posted, the amount of truly good reviews more than makes up for that. In my view, however, it is essential to draw the line at openly manipulative (or, conversely) derogatory reviews, but without resorting to "thumbs down" - which in itself might lead to other kinds of manipulation.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:03 |
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yeah.. I got off an a tangent.. and missed the heart of the idea when trying to drive a stake into it.
we allow the (damned IMO) notion of allowing people to rate albums rather than review them. Why? becauase the site (wisely I must admit even though I don't like ratings w/o review) strive to ENCOURAGE reviews. this idea would do nothing but discourage them, if the aim is to show love for reviews. We have a thread for that. NO good comes from singling out reviews/reviews that are unpopular |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:03 |
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Once reasoning starts being based on 'likely' and 'probably' the argument is a moot point as far as I'm concerned, Mick. You'll have to better to convince me. It works elsewhere, so why not here?
As an active reviewer I am interested in knowing - directly, not by scrolling through pages of forum discussion. I can imagine you see that differently, with one review in the last 5 years (at least on PA). Either way, I think it's a good idea, but if it doesn't I'll rely on the 400+ visitors a week that visit my reviews and track-of-the-day blog.  Edited by Angelo - January 25 2015 at 07:08 |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:05 |
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see my last post. What possible benefit to the site would this bring. I can sure point out the negative, which run completely contrary the overall good of the site. Encouraging people TO review. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:12 |
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Yep, I concede that appeasing a demographic who submit poor reviews is maybe a bit like that attitude prevalent in education where ALL the kids are handed a pass lest little Bobbie suffer the psychological scarring for being deemed 'a bit s.h.i.t' - there is no other Prog site I know that allows any members to submit unvetted reviews (hence our appeal to instant gratification etc) Would we attract significantly less valuable members if we made it that little bit harder to submit reviews? e.g. only after say > 3 months with the first one subject to vetting? (even that might prove an onerous workload) BTW the principal reason we allow rating only reviews is to allow non english speakers to participate in the site. This does bring its fair share of problems with ratings manipulation etc but I'm torn if removing the facility would improve the site? Edited by ExittheLemming - January 25 2015 at 07:15 |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:16 |
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Better reviews, less criticism on other sites because of the massive amount of fanboy reviews, in short - fixing some loss of reputation. Living inside PA only you don't notice but it's not all sunshine.
Encouraging people to review is good, but it has downsides as well. And then there is the last bullet in my first post here. There is such a thing as respect for the artist. Some reviews don't show any of that at all but remain online. Allowing readers to mark those adds to the above... |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:20 |
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As I have contributed to other sites, and also spent a lot of time on Facebook in the past few years before I deleted my account, I am aware of the comments on PA's "fanboy" reviews. This is why, in my previous post (which you probably didn't see), I mentioned drawing the line at openly manipulative (i.e. "fanboy) or derogatory reviews (those that blatantly disrespect the artists). |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:25 |
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^^ I have no quibble with any of that Angelo (if we had the resources I'd have all reviews vetted to ensure quality trumps quantity) but you and I both know that convincing the majority of active and participating members would be a long and arduous battle e.g cast your mind back to when the league table of most PROLIFIC reviewers was removed from the front page, half the members started a splinter group facebook campaign for its return with a list of demands (including hard hats and police escorts for the admins)
 Edited by ExittheLemming - January 25 2015 at 07:26 |
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 11 2005 Location: Manchester, UK Status: Offline Points: 9226 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:29 |
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An issue I see here is fanboyism diluting Angelo's honest intentions. If I rate Riverside with 2 stars, then it is likely that some fanboys will dislike this and rate down my review regardless of content (and vice versa with a very good album of a well-known band). Unless we have a means of controlling this, it might end up in total mess.
IMO, the threads re "I like your review" and "inappropriate reviews and ratings", although not mass-attracting means, serve a purpose. |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:30 |
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Missed that indeed, phone screens are small...
I see your point there, but it only works that way only partly. There are many good reviews indeed, but most of them are on the 'major' bands and albums. Less reviewed bands and albums are easily crushed by getting destructive reviews (well disguised sometimes) or by getting the reputation of being a 'fan boy band/album'. With all the effort spend on including new bands over the past 5 years, I don't think it is in PA's best interest to let that continue, with the sole protection of 'some guidelines'. Besides that, you seem to be completely ignoring two parts of what I'm trying to get across. First, encouraging reviewers has been part of PA for the reason that it helps people find good information on the music presented by the bands (the first goal of the site is publishing that information!). That works, but it doesn't help new visitors judge the quality or validity of what is written - a thumb up/down or score makes that easier. Second, feedback hidden deep down in a forum thread is not exactly helpful to a reviewer, given that it tends to go unnoticed. And for the heck of it, I know the two of you have strong opinions, and you are entitled to those, but it would be great to hear some others here as well... Where is everyone on this freakish, dreary cold Sunday afternoon?
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:36 |
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To answer your question, generally this is the time of day when the forum gets the least traffic - both on weekdays and weekends. Anyway, I am off to do some housework now, so this is the last you'll hear from me for a while. Back to the issue at hand, I see your point, and absolutely agree about bad reviews being detrimental for lesser-known bands. However, I don't think that having a thumbs up/down button will encourage people to review the hundreds of albums (some of them excellent) that currently have no reviews whatsoever. |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:39 |
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I think I was there... the hard hat dented and scratched must be in the attic somewhere...
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:42 |
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Errm... how could I forget after being here for over 8 years... ;)
Never said that that would be the effect of having thumsb up/down, completely different topic.
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:43 |
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Off to sound editing now... got an audio interview waiting to be finished for four weeks already. I'll pick up later.
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Thumbs up or down on album reviews
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ExittheLemming wrote: