Phil Collins (the Drummer)

Phil Collins is my all time least favourite progressive musician right behind Jordan Rudess.  I'm sorry.

He's a semi decent drummer...but what he did to Genesis was unforgivable (and I thought Genesis were mediocre to begin with.)


Edited by Lucent - April 29 2009 at 19:33

sleeper wrote: One of my favourite drummers. His work with Brand X is hugely impressive as well.

prog4evr wrote: sleeper wrote: One of my favourite drummers. His work with Brand X is hugely impressive as well. Indeed.  In Armando Gallo's "old" book on Genesis ("I Know What I Like"), Phil is quoted as saying that his stint with Brand X really allowed him to express himself percussively, whereas he felt that his role on Genesis was more constraining.  Having said that, we all need to remember the wonderful jazz cum rock improvisations forever emblazened on "Fountain of Salmacis."  For Collins on early Genesis, I feel that is one of his shining moments...

as well as...

Firth of Fifth (espeically Seconds Out)
Cinema Show (Especially Seconds Out)
Los Endos
In that Quiet Earth
In the Cage
Dukes Travels
Down & Out
Burning Rope
Suppers Ready (9/8)

I still don't understand why Phil generates so much anger in people.  With his solo career, it's his music, his career and he can do with it what he wants.  The idea that Phil owes us anything is completely ridiculous.  Of course, if we don't like his music, we don't have to buy it.  But he has no obligation to appease the fans of older Genesis, if that is not the road he wants to take.  And if all he is concerned about is making a lot of cash, well that's his choice.  He owes us nothing.  As for Genesis, I don't think that Tony would have allowed anything to occur with that band that he did not want to happen.  Phil was only one of three members, and Mike and Tony had to go along with it.  And just as before, if they chose to do pop music, it's THEIR music, not ours.  They can do what they like and don't owe us anything.  Be thankful for the music that they gave us that you do enjoy and stop complaining about their stuff you don't enjoy.  The fact that they have moved on from that type of music (although I would argue they haven't completely moved away from it) doesn't make Collins or anyone else in the band a monster or a traitor or a jerk.  They are artists, and as such should have complete control over the direction their art takes.  Ok.  Off-topic counter-rant over.

American Khatru wrote: I'm a drummer myself (among other things) and I am undeniably influenced by his drumming with Gabriel-era Genesis.  Listening back to rehearsal tapes, I've heard myself borrowing things ().  His drumming was, and remains, some of the most fascinating to listen to for me - right there with Bruford, Palmer, Bonham.  And I believe that that is why so many of us have sh*t-listed him.  He went from being so admirable while he had a role to play and was young, to being a total and utter choade.  If he had just become banal like so many others, well then, we'd have been grateful, saying, "Thanks for the memories."  But he became a monster instead, a traitor in a sense, no longer out for art.  Disney head-mic jerk .  Calming down...

I'm curious - would you also vilify Gabriel for doing stuff like that great track from Wall-E. What is wrong with people making an honest living?

With all the pop and circumstance surrounding the solo works of Collins and even Gabriel, I'm not sure a Genesis reunion would be all that great. There would be very high expectations and I think whatever new material they come up with would pretty commercial and end up being a big disappointment.

But that doesn't mean I won't check it out of course. Any word on that lately?

Edited by marktheshark - April 30 2009 at 16:26

The Doctor wrote: I still don't understand why Phil generates so much anger in people.  With his solo career, it's his music, his career and he can do with it what he wants.  The idea that Phil owes us anything is completely ridiculous.  Of course, if we don't like his music, we don't have to buy it.  But he has no obligation to appease the fans of older Genesis, if that is not the road he wants to take.  And if all he is concerned about is making a lot of cash, well that's his choice.  He owes us nothing.  As for Genesis, I don't think that Tony would have allowed anything to occur with that band that he did not want to happen.  Phil was only one of three members, and Mike and Tony had to go along with it.  And just as before, if they chose to do pop music, it's THEIR music, not ours.  They can do what they like and don't owe us anything.  Be thankful for the music that they gave us that you do enjoy and stop complaining about their stuff you don't enjoy.  The fact that they have moved on from that type of music (although I would argue they haven't completely moved away from it) doesn't make Collins or anyone else in the band a monster or a traitor or a jerk.  They are artists, and as such should have complete control over the direction their art takes.  Ok.  Off-topic counter-rant over.

Amen to that and thanks for saving me the trouble of typing it all. I agree with everything you said.

I can't stand all this bollox about "Phil destroying Genesis" and all that rubbish. Apart from anything else, this presumes that Tony Banks just rolled over and let Phil take control which is total nonsense.

Why can't all the Phil haters just listen up to Wind and Wuthering and be monumentally grateful for the music they gave us up until then and just accept that after that they grew up a bit and matured and just wanted to change their sound.

Every other prog band stream-lined their sound in the late 70s (Camel, Rush, Yes, etc, etc) but Genesis happened to be a lot better at producing commercial music. If you don't like it, don't listen.

The Doctor wrote: I still don't understand why Phil generates so much anger in people.  With his solo career, it's his music, his career and he can do with it what he wants.  The idea that Phil owes us anything is completely ridiculous.  Of course, if we don't like his music, we don't have to buy it.  But he has no obligation to appease the fans of older Genesis, if that is not the road he wants to take.  And if all he is concerned about is making a lot of cash, well that's his choice.  He owes us nothing.  As for Genesis, I don't think that Tony would have allowed anything to occur with that band that he did not want to happen.  Phil was only one of three members, and Mike and Tony had to go along with it.  And just as before, if they chose to do pop music, it's THEIR music, not ours.  They can do what they like and don't owe us anything.  Be thankful for the music that they gave us that you do enjoy and stop complaining about their stuff you don't enjoy.  The fact that they have moved on from that type of music (although I would argue they haven't completely moved away from it) doesn't make Collins or anyone else in the band a monster or a traitor or a jerk.  They are artists, and as such should have complete control over the direction their art takes.  Ok.  Off-topic counter-rant over.

YOu Nailed it!
I agree !00% My Friend.

Nov wrote: Amen to that and thanks for saving me the trouble of typing it all. I agree with everything you said. I can't stand all this bollox about "Phil destroying Genesis" and all that rubbish. Apart from anything else, this presumes that Tony Banks just rolled over and let Phil take control which is total nonsense. Why can't all the Phil haters just listen up to Wind and Wuthering and be monumentally grateful for the music they gave us up until then and just accept that after that they grew up a bit and matured and just wanted to change their sound. Every other prog band stream-lined their sound in the late 70s (Camel, Rush, Yes, etc, etc) but Genesis happened to be a lot better at producing commercial music. If you don't like it, don't listen.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 02 2009 at 10:03

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: I do believe he was the leader of the horrendous change in Genesis, because Tony was always the guy behind the keys and behind a leader

Anyone who really understands the personalities within Genesis (and this has come from the guys themselves) will tell you that Tony was always the main driving force within Genesis. You could have had a Genesis without any of them except Tony Banks. No less a person than Tony Smith has said this.

All that gradually happened after Steve Hackett left was that the remaining three worked towards having 33.3% input into all the studio albums.

What I am trying to say is that if you don't like Genesis after 1977 it's as much to do with Tony and Mike as it is Phil.

Tony wrote the chord sequence to "Hold On My Heart" for crying out loud.

I rest my case



 


Edited by Nov - May 02 2009 at 15:45