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CCVP 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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 Posted: November 09 2008 at 14:29 |
 Ricochet wrote:
CCVP wrote:
ya, another interesting case is Alan Parsons. Still don't know why the hell he is in prog related. I think that he would fit better in the progressive electronic session, though it have been some time since i last listened my father's APP LPs . . .
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Definitely not in prog electro...
As for a move in Xover, I know it sounds favorable to some, in my view he could stay in Related, only one album is of a progressive rich value (almost reminding me of Jon Anderson's case, with Olias...), otherwise I never saw AP as a full-fledged prog (rock) artist.
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If you say so, OK. it has been some time since i listened Alan Parson's Project for the last time. I need to get the dust out of the LPs and re-listen them anyawy. Thanks for the hint anyway  .
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: November 09 2008 at 14:48 |
CCVP wrote:
ya, another interesting case is Alan Parsons. Still don't know why the hell he is in prog related. I think that he would fit better in the progressive electronic session, though it have been some time since i last listened my father's APP LPs . . . |
I respectfully disagree with you CCVP.
IMO Alan Parsons is one of those artists who fits perfectly in Prog Related (Even when I had my doubts before) because:
- Tales of Mystery and Imagination: Is closer to Symphonic than to any other sub-genre, but not enough to grant an inclusion. Absolutely no connection with Electronic
- I Robot: Is some form of Electronic meets ambient, great album, but not a 100% Prog Release. Barely related with Electronic. as much as with new Age or Ambient
- Pyramids: Excellent album, one of my favorites, but not more Prog than ATYX, the fact that Andrew Powell adds excellent orchestral arrangements and the production is fantastic, doesn't make it closer to Prog than any Pomp Pop band, Absolutely no connection with Electronic
- Eve: Lucifer and Damn if I do, it's POP, and boring POP again the Powell orchestral arrangements. make it seem slightly related to Prog.
- The turn of a Friendly Card: No Prog connection, excellent POP music, great arrangements and pristine production, but nothing more than nice POP. Much better than the previous, but not remotely related with Electronic
- Eye in the Sky: Top 40 stuff.
- Ammonia Avenue: Again Powell saves the day because of the Orchestral arrangements, good Pop
Then everything goes faster down the hill, the formula of pristine POP with Orchestra gets exhausted.
I believe a band can't be considered full Prog just because of one album, mainly when most of his production is POP, good, even outstanding POP, but not Prog, and definitely no Electronic connection.
Maybe forcing a bit the scheme, could go to Crossover,. but the Adm Team has to decide the benefits and accuracy against the negative points, none of both situations (Prog Rlated or Crossover) would be wrong, even when I'm more oriented towards PR.
CCVP wrote:
if it is, why is Genesis not in the prog-related category, since their most recognized and best selling albums are clearly pop? WHY?  |
Yes, Genesis has POP albums, but Genesis is one of the pioneers of the genre and probably the most recognized Prog and Symphonic band, the majority of their albums are pure Prog and few bands have 7 Prog masterpieces in a row:
- Trespass
- NC
- Foxtrot
- SEBTP
- The Lamb
- ATotT
- W&W
Two light Prog albums.
- ATTW3
- Duke
And only 4 Pop albums
- Abacab
- Invissible Touch
- Shapes
- We Can't Dance
One hybrid between Prog and pop
- CAS
So stop putting Genesis in the same sack, with full albums as Foxtrot, Terespas, NC, SEBTP and The lamb, there's no other place as Symphonic.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 09 2008 at 14:58
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: November 09 2008 at 14:50 |
Raff wrote:
I just wonder about one thing... Would it be possible to avoid sounding as if the world was coming to an end when asking for an artist to be moved? I don't know if Caio realised that his post was worded in a rather aggressive manner. I perfectly understand striving for accuracy, but I'd also like to remind everyone that we are doing what we do for FREE, and we often have serious real life issues to deal with. Knowing myself, I am aware that, if the original query had been addressed to me, I wouldn't have been as polite as I usually am in my answer, because I don't like having fingers pointed at me.
*end of rant*
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Well Raff, i'm sorry. It was NOT my intent to be nor to sound aggressive and bossy. What i meant was really: 1)know the reason (or reasons) that keep Rick Wright in Prog-Related and 2)I think he is not in the best category. Is it possible to change his category, if you (mods) also find it fitting? Since 1 was clearly clarified by Angelo and Guigo, i am now trying to do what i can to move Wright to another genre. Also, i didn't knew about the original resolution that Wright was set to be put in the crossover, so i thought i were the 1st one to ever question about this. Can we be friends now??  
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: November 09 2008 at 14:57 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
CCVP wrote:
ya, another interesting case is Alan Parsons. Still don't know why the hell he is in prog related. I think that he would fit better in the progressive electronic session, though it have been some time since i last listened my father's APP LPs . . . |
I respectfully disagree with you CCVP.
IMO Alan Parsons is one of those artists who fits perfectly in Prog Related (Even when I had my doubts before) because:
- Tales of Mystery and Imagination: Is closer to Symphonic than to any other sub-genre, but not enough to grant an inclusion. Absolutely no connection with Electronic
- I Robot: Is some form of Electronic meets ambient, great album, but not a 100% Prog Release. Barely related with Electronic. as much as with new Age or Ambient
- Pyramids: Excellent album, one of my favorites, but not more Prog than ATYX, the fact that Andrew Powell adds excellent orchestral arrangements and the production is fantastic, doesn't make it closer to Prog than any Pomp Pop band, Absolutely no connection with Electronic
- Eve: Lucifer and Damn if I do, it's POP, and boring POP again the Powell orchestral arrangements. make it seem slightly related to Prog.
- The turn of a Friendly Card: No Prog connection, excellent POP music, great arrangements and pristine production, but nothing more than nice POP. Much better than the previous, but not remotely related with Electronic
- Eye in the Sky: Top 40 stuff.
- Ammonia Avenue: Again Powell saves the day because of the Orchestral arrangements, good Pop
Then everything goes faster down the hill, the formula of pristine POP with Orchestra gets exhausted.
I believe a band can't be considered full Prog just because of one album, mainly when most of his production is POP, good, even outstanding POP, but not Prog, and definitely no Electronic connection.
Maybe forcing a bit the scheme, could go to Crossover,. but the Adm Team has to decide the benefits and accuracy against the negative points, none of bothsituations (Prog Rlated or Crossover) would be wrong, even when I'm more oriented towards PR.
Iván |
ok, no problem. BTW, i don't have any problems with anyone disagreeing with what i think, we don't need to be so formal . After all, (at least thats how i face it) this is supposed to be fun and friendly. 
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: November 09 2008 at 15:02 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
CCVP wrote:
if it is, why is Genesis not in the prog-related category, since their most recognized and best selling albums are clearly pop? WHY? |
Yes, Genesis has POP albums, but Genesis is one of the pioneers of the genre and probably the most recognized Prog and Symphonic band, the majority of their albums are pure Prog and few bands have 7 Prog masterpieces in a row:
- Trespass
- NC
- Foxtrot
- SEBTP
- The Lamb
- ATotT
- W&W
Two light Prog albums.
- ATTW3
- Duke
And only 4 Pop albums
- Abacab
- Invissible Touch
- Shapes
- We Can't Dance
One hybrid between Prog and pop
- CAS
So stop putting Genesis in the same sack, with full albums as Foxtrot, Terespas, NC, SEBTP and The lamb, there's no other place as Symphonic.
Iván |
Well, i am not sure if ALL classic genesis albums are masterpieces, but they are still damn good and important. I just mentioned Genesis because, after Duke, they really went to straightforward POP. Also, all albums after Wind and Wuthering have small influences in progressive rock, just like Richard Wright's Zee. But that was not the reason anyway, so just leave it behind. 
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: November 09 2008 at 15:06 |
Angelo wrote:
CCVP wrote:
Angelo, i'm sorry, but i can't see anywhere in the definition that the solo works of certain musicians who are known as members of prog bands should go to the prog-related category. In fact, though i understand some additions in the prog related, such as David Gilmour and even Roger Waters (though he is listed in the crossover, but anyway), i can't see why Wright is listed there. i mean, he has 2 releases that are DEFINITELY prog (wet dream and broken china), wile you can't say the same thing about most of Gilmour's, Water's or even Mason's. |
Well - Guigo clarified what I was referring to already, and apparently Wright has a different history here.
What could help though, is if you have an opinion on a matter like this, you write what you mean, instead of building a sarcastic text around it - that's bound for misinterpretation, given that neither you nor I are native English speakers.
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Though i didn't intended to be sarcastic or anything, ok, no problem. 
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Online
Points: 37240
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Posted: November 09 2008 at 15:12 |
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Personally, I think of APP as Prog enough, but as is often said, prog is in the ear of the behearer. Tales of Mystery and Imagination is the most Prog, and is symph inclined, whereas I think of I Robot as more commercially-oriented/ pop Art Rock (album Oriented Rock) with space characteristics and symph leanings, and in fact I think it an excellent Crossover album in itself. I put it in my collection next to concept albums such as Dark Side of the Moon (of course Parsons was involved with that). After that I think it closer to Prog Related (the following two albums). In the 70's, and I was only a kid then, I seem to remember people classifying APP as Progressive Rock.
Crossover better describes the progressive approach in APP than Prog Related for me, but I respect those who see/ hear it differently.
Edited by Logan - November 09 2008 at 15:22
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 09 2008 at 18:03 |
Back in October 2007 Andu suggested moving Rick Wright to Xover, having re-assess his music Micky and I agreed and I put the proposal for moving them into the Admins (along with The Alan Parsons Project) ... anyway, long story short (skipping the part where I cocked-up the vote-count  ): Both approved for moving and now residing in Crossover. Case closed, thank you for your time and patience.
/edit: Please note, this move does not apply to the Alan Parson's Band 
Edited by Dean - November 09 2008 at 18:04
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What?
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Why is Richard Wright prog related?
