Magma

Lewian wrote: I think there's a big difference between using symbols of oppression to make an artistic or fictional point versus using those symbols because they actually represent your own ideology. True and fair enough, but there's a third category in which such symbols may be used out of lack of consideration making a "point" that wouldn't have required them and could have been better transported without, even though they still don't represent one's own ideology. And maybe a fourth category in which there's a probably somewhat irrational fascination on show with these symbols and what they represent, without explicitly either supporting the ideology or distancing oneself from it. This is easily misinterpreted, and because it involves an element of provocation, the artist may be fine with that, at least for the moment. (David Bowie comes to mind.)

Something like Lemmy's collection of Nazi memorabilia and fondness for wearing the Iron Cross falls into category four I guess. I am 100% certain that he was not a Nazi sympathiser or anything similar. He just thought their stuff looked cool. Much as I loved Lemmy that is actually pretty crass, but it didn't make him an evil person, just one with lamentably little tact and good taste. It went hand in hand I guess with his quite sincere inability to give a damn what anyone else thought of him, which in other contexts could be one of his most endearing qualities.

I'm not suggesting Vander is of this type, by the way.


Edited by Mascodagama - August 13 2018 at 12:22

^ Mind you, there are those who make Lemmy look like an amateur:

The Man Who Sleeps In Hitler's Bed

I found this morbidly fascinating. And morbid is the word I think, Wheatcroft seems like a very sad individual.

Edited by Mascodagama - August 13 2018 at 15:15

Yeah I'm thinking Mr. Vander's not a bad guy at this point. I've been listening to some Magma again and really enjoying it. I even meditated to MDK today(first time in several months) and man that felt good.

Also thank you to everyone who gave suggestions of other music that might be good for meditation. 

Done research into it. Just reading CD booklets gives information about the mythology, but also from reading websites about the mythology (the albums tell a story and he draws on different mythologies and inspirations such as Egyptian mythology) and from the Kobaian-English dictionaries (prepared by fans, so I won't claim accuracy). Some of us spoke Kobaian here quite well at one time. I have forgotten most of it mostly as there is no one here, that I'm aware of, to use it with any longer -- mostly it was used to insult, confuse and threaten Dream Theater fans while praising Magma (all in good fun, I assure you). We were just asserting our geeky superiority in a very tongue-in-cheek manner. Magma iss de hundin, wurdah Dream Theater!

He chose Kobaian for the sound, and I won't say that it all means something, but many Kobaian words have meaning, such as theusz hamtaahk, which means Time of Hate.

This site goes into some of the story: http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html

And http://artist-shop.com/seventh/index.htm

And here's an old fan prepared dictionary: http://web.archive.org/web/20091021064935/http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/MAGMA-KOBAIAN-dictionary.html

Some of what I said in another thread on this topic is, my little interpretation and positing (from http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111673&PN=4 ):

For those that don't know, the bad times in Kobaian mythology is Theusz Hamtaahk, the Time of Hate. I've thought that the Kobaian mythology might be an extension of what might have happened in a parallel universe if Naziism had prevailed. Despite the darkness of Nazi like totalitarianism, eventually the human, or Kobaian I might say, spirit prevailed over the darkness and the dictatorship crumbled and so we get to the time of love. It's a fantasy based on humanity that draws on history. It's quite an Orwellian story only with a more positive message, we can triumph over evil, unlike in 1984 where you imagine a boot stomping on a face for ever. Magma is ultimately uplifting, and spiritual....

The story starts off dystopian and turns Utopian.   A bit like a 1984 type totalitarian world, only referencing Naziism in particular rather than the communism that Orwell referenced, becomes more like the Chronicles of Narnia.

Which was me being rather too fanciful perhaps (but I like draw in my own references to make a fuller experience).

Edited by Logan - August 14 2018 at 05:41

Logan wrote: Done research into it. Just reading CD booklets gives information about the mythology, but also from reading websites about the mythology (the albums tell a story and he draws on different mythologies and inspirations such as Egyptian mythology) and from the Kobaian-English dictionaries (prepared by fans, so I won't claim accuracy). Some of us spoke Kobaian here quite well at one time. I have forgotten most of it mostly as there is no one here, that I'm aware of, to use it with any longer -- mostly it was used to insult, confuse and threaten Dream Theater fans while praising Magma (all in good fun, I assure you). We were just asserting our geeky superiority in a very tongue-in-cheek manner. Magma iss de hundin, wurdah Dream Theater! He chose Kobaian for the sound, and I won't say that it all means something, but many Kobaian words have meaning, such as theusz hamtaahk, which means Time of Hate. This site goes into some of the story: http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html And http://artist-shop.com/seventh/index.htm And here's an old fan prepared dictionary: http://web.archive.org/web/20091021064935/http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/MAGMA-KOBAIAN-dictionary.html Some of what I said in another thread on this topic is, my little interpretation and positing (from http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111673&PN=4 ): For those that don't know, the bad times in Kobaian mythology is Theusz Hamtaahk, the Time of Hate. I've thought that the Kobaian mythology might be an extension of what might have happened in a parallel universe if Naziism had prevailed. Despite the darkness of Nazi like totalitarianism, eventually the human, or Kobaian I might say, spirit prevailed over the darkness and the dictatorship crumbled and so we get to the time of love. It's a fantasy based on humanity that draws on history. It's quite an Orwellian story only with a more positive message, we can triumph over evil, unlike in 1984 where you imagine a boot stomping on a face for ever. Magma is ultimately uplifting, and spiritual.... The story starts off dystopian and turns Utopian.   A bit like a 1984 type totalitarian world, only referencing Naziism in particular rather than the communism that Orwell referenced, becomes more like the Chronicles of Narnia. Which was me being rather too fanciful perhaps (but I like draw in my own references to make a fuller experience).

Thanx a lot for those links, I am really going to read them all, when have more time! Before I have just read what´s in Magma´s wikipedia sites and it´s not a lot (for example from Theusz Hamtaahk-trilogie there are just English names of the parts, not the story at all).

Edited by Mortte - August 14 2018 at 06:38

^BTW I think I haven´t recommended you Finnish band Absoluuttinen Nollapiste albums Pisara & Lammas 1-2. It´s also including a story, that have similarities to Magma-story. Music is not fully Magma-style, but anyway I really love those albums! I made reviews from them to progarchives, where I tell the story very simple way, if it interest you and you want to ask some clarifications from it, don´t hesitate to ask.

Doing so much live sound work and occasional studio recordings with everyone from beat poets to British Heavy meatal bands, I've come to understand that there is a distinction between the artist and his or her art. Surprisingly, I like the music if many the artists that I've worked with but wouldn't give a nickel for personality of many of the artists. Remember, artists are just people with the same hang ups and quirks that you and I have. Please meditate on that.

Edited by SteveG - August 14 2018 at 07:11

Heck, I sure would, at least once, even if it was a country western rap album by DJ JC called "Ridin' my Truck out of Heaven" or "Saints in the Hood".