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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 20:53
Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

People do need to do their own research but they also need to stop looking at each issue as a chance to join a "team".  We need more individualthink and less groupthink.


I wholeheartedly agree, and for everything not just policy--  however, when it comes to much if not most Federal action, one thing that is missed is that a significant number of Americans - like maybe over 50 % - essentially, more or less, on good days, like their government.  I know that's a shocker and highly unpopular these days (even for Libs), but if you ask the average U.S. citizen, especially those over 40 or so, if they like and want, say, Federal insurance for their bank account and dividends, border security, a Forest Service, Dept of Education, Coast Guard and strong military, the answer I suspect would be an overwhelming 'Yes'.






Edited by Atavachron - June 30 2010 at 20:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 20:53
May be the beer talkin'...but I'll be damned if I don't like you JJ.  You've been really cool to talk to.

Edit:  Nope, not the beer.  Wink  You've gotten me to think about things I might otherwise not have.


Edited by Epignosis - June 30 2010 at 20:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 21:02
Oh dear, we've had issues in the past with people posting drunk Wink
Cool to talk to, make you think about things? Oh man, you MUST be drunk LOL
Well thank you, I try my best, I really do. And I've enjoyed it with you. As I said, you (well all of you) actually know what you're talking about. I'll debate, I just dont want to hear "I hate obama because hes: black/socialist/muslim/a democrat/he scares me etc" and I've joked before about Bush being the Anti Christ but I never really meant it LOL



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 21:45
And less than 12 hours from now I begin my temp job working for the man.
I've lucked out thus far, (the closest I came was cashier at Wegman's and that was not too bad) but now...
Job in an office!
And at the company that laid off my father Ermm  sellout much?

Nah, I actually applied there before it happened and he's looking in company still...but yeah...huzzah for menial work at a corporate office! But damn the pay is good considering the actual stuff I need to so...


Edited by JJLehto - June 30 2010 at 21:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 21:48
I hate Rob because he scares me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 21:53
I hate him because he's beautiful 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 22:02
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

And less than 12 hours from now I begin my temp job working for the man.
 
 
Won't anybody you work for be "the man" until you work for yourself, becoming your own (and possibly some else's) "man"?


Time always wins.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 22:08
Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

And less than 12 hours from now I begin my temp job working for the man.
 
 
Won't anybody you work for be "the man" until you work for yourself, becoming your own (and possibly some else's) "man"?


One can only hope!
And as a liberal you know that  to me "the man" is a ginormous business. Hmm....ginormous dosn't have that red line. Is that a word?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 22:10
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I hate Rob because he scares me.


Well you sure are the first.

What are you, Robophobic?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2010 at 22:16
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I hate Rob because he scares me.


Well you sure are the first.

What are you, Robophobic?


not at all, some of my best friends are Robs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 03:36
Well, now that we know Pat is not Robophobic...

The Tea Party scares the f*ck out of me. Republicans are losing their minds, or they are selling it out to the Teabaggers. Not that  I dont love being one of those doom and gloom liberals...but I really hope people settle down/things improve soon. I'm a bit scared at how many are caving to this movement out of frustration.
You guys here actually do believe in the philosophy, which is fine. But I don't care...those in power (sans a few) are NOT doing this based on philosophy. Its for continuing the benefits of those who need it least. And regular, working people supporting the tea party are leading to their downfall.
I mean privatizing social security...with our recession? Eliminate the EPA...with the oil spill? Talk of "turning to the second amendment" to take out their frustration and Republicans fighting like hell to not extend unemployment...John Boehner described all this gvmt stuff as "killing an ant with a nuclear weapon" an ant?

Again, I will fully admit my bias...and ideology is fine, but it seems to me that the Republicans are making NO attempt to even pretend to care about regular people, yet so many eat it up.
OK, 4:35 am I dont know why I did all that or if it made sense....but it still boggles my mind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 04:12
 ^ well conservatives want to conserve, which usually means not making any changes.. for them, the farther things get from where things are - or were - the more uncomfortable they get, which is understandable if you're a strict constitutionalist
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 08:02
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:



I mean privatizing social security...with our recession?


I'd rather see social security phased out over a period of time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 13:46
Amusing little article for libertarians.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 14:01
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Well, now that we know Pat is not Robophobic...

The Tea Party scares the f*ck out of me. Republicans are losing their minds, or they are selling it out to the Teabaggers. Not that  I dont love being one of those doom and gloom liberals...but I really hope people settle down/things improve soon. I'm a bit scared at how many are caving to this movement out of frustration.
You guys here actually do believe in the philosophy, which is fine. But I don't care...those in power (sans a few) are NOT doing this based on philosophy. Its for continuing the benefits of those who need it least. And regular, working people supporting the tea party are leading to their downfall.
I mean privatizing social security...with our recession? Eliminate the EPA...with the oil spill? Talk of "turning to the second amendment" to take out their frustration and Republicans fighting like hell to not extend unemployment...John Boehner described all this gvmt stuff as "killing an ant with a nuclear weapon" an ant?

Again, I will fully admit my bias...and ideology is fine, but it seems to me that the Republicans are making NO attempt to even pretend to care about regular people, yet so many eat it up.
OK, 4:35 am I dont know why I did all that or if it made sense....but it still boggles my mind.


Why are you scared of the Tea Party? I've been to a couple of their events and the people there were lovely. There was no violence, no "hate speech" and certainly no racism. Everyone was smiling and just happy to have someone to commiserate with. Most of the major news channels are trying to paint the tea party as a bunch of violent, racist extremists, but it's simply not true. They are just frustrated with a government that has been ignoring their concerns for the last 25 years. Have you actually tried talking to some of these people? They are very pleasant.
Where's your outrage at the G20 protesters who set things on fire? What about the violent outbreaks by people protesting the Arizona Immigration law? And please stop using the insulting and vulgar phrase "teabaggers." It only makes you look ignorant.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 14:24
Well, the party part sounds good.  The tea however frightens me.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 14:37
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Well, now that we know Pat is not Robophobic...

The Tea Party scares the f*ck out of me. Republicans are losing their minds, or they are selling it out to the Teabaggers. Not that  I dont love being one of those doom and gloom liberals...but I really hope people settle down/things improve soon. I'm a bit scared at how many are caving to this movement out of frustration.
You guys here actually do believe in the philosophy, which is fine. But I don't care...those in power (sans a few) are NOT doing this based on philosophy. Its for continuing the benefits of those who need it least. And regular, working people supporting the tea party are leading to their downfall.
I mean privatizing social security...with our recession? Eliminate the EPA...with the oil spill? Talk of "turning to the second amendment" to take out their frustration and Republicans fighting like hell to not extend unemployment...John Boehner described all this gvmt stuff as "killing an ant with a nuclear weapon" an ant?

Again, I will fully admit my bias...and ideology is fine, but it seems to me that the Republicans are making NO attempt to even pretend to care about regular people, yet so many eat it up.
OK, 4:35 am I dont know why I did all that or if it made sense....but it still boggles my mind.


Why are you scared of the Tea Party? I've been to a couple of their events and the people there were lovely. There was no violence, no "hate speech" and certainly no racism. Everyone was smiling and just happy to have someone to commiserate with. Most of the major news channels are trying to paint the tea party as a bunch of violent, racist extremists, but it's simply not true. They are just frustrated with a government that has been ignoring their concerns for the last 25 years. Have you actually tried talking to some of these people? They are very pleasant.
Where's your outrage at the G20 protesters who set things on fire? What about the violent outbreaks by people protesting the Arizona Immigration law? And please stop using the insulting and vulgar phrase "teabaggers." It only makes you look ignorant.
 
 
Very well said.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 14:38
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

And please stop using the insulting and vulgar phrase "teabaggers." It only makes you look ignorant.

They started using it until they found out what it meant, so I think we are more than free to use it, and if you didn't know that, you're the one looking ignorant.

Oh wait, I guess the proper way to refer to them is people who want to drop their testicles into your mouth. LOL


Edited by Slartibartfast - July 01 2010 at 14:43
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 14:49
Did anyone actually vote for Bob Barr in 08?

I did.

I don't regret it either. I'm actually confused as to why anyone would want to vote for a Republican. The most rational idea I can come up with that is not based on imposing morality on people is to get vaguely restrictive economic policies in the White House. But then we end up with trickle-down economics and tax cuts that favor big businesses, corporations, etc. and giving them a free ride in raping and pillaging the landscape...lest we forget. I just think the White House is too important to endow to another Bush administration, which is why I'll never vote for Republicans as they are now. I usually say Democrats aren't much better. They're very much better when it comes to social issues and all, but they need to grow some damn spines and make good decisions, not bulky sh*t like the Health Care bill. For the love of god who besides a paid intern is going to read that piece of sh*t?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2010 at 14:58
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Well, now that we know Pat is not Robophobic...

The Tea Party scares the f*ck out of me. Republicans are losing their minds, or they are selling it out to the Teabaggers. Not that  I dont love being one of those doom and gloom liberals...but I really hope people settle down/things improve soon. I'm a bit scared at how many are caving to this movement out of frustration.
You guys here actually do believe in the philosophy, which is fine. But I don't care...those in power (sans a few) are NOT doing this based on philosophy. Its for continuing the benefits of those who need it least. And regular, working people supporting the tea party are leading to their downfall.
I mean privatizing social security...with our recession? Eliminate the EPA...with the oil spill? Talk of "turning to the second amendment" to take out their frustration and Republicans fighting like hell to not extend unemployment...John Boehner described all this gvmt stuff as "killing an ant with a nuclear weapon" an ant?

Again, I will fully admit my bias...and ideology is fine, but it seems to me that the Republicans are making NO attempt to even pretend to care about regular people, yet so many eat it up.
OK, 4:35 am I dont know why I did all that or if it made sense....but it still boggles my mind.
 
 
Another perception problem: it does not take massive government entitlement programs to "help" or "care about" people.  Sure, some "regular" people would struggle without government support but it isn't though the majority of those on government assistance are thriving and those who are thriving are simply burdens on the rest of us.  That may sound cold but it really isn't; private charities are far more capable to efficiently take care of those who actually need assistance (elderly, handicapped, etc) without using force to redistribute your money.  Charities are also elastic and can be taken to task if we feel they are misusing our money.  Most politicians make their living off of convincing segments of the population that they would be unable to survive out there in this cruel, evil world without the tender, loving care that only they can provide through big costly programs with names that make people feel safe.  The very concept that the government is capable of dividing the entire population into neat little groups is ludacris enough, to begin with ,but then to think that they can run offices capable of adequately meeting the ever changing needs of each of these little groups, which they've invented, is insanity.  People are individuals and need to be allowed to live as such.
 
The oil spill should actually be seen as an example of the inefficiency of bureaucracy.  The role of "feel good" enviromental regulations pushing drilling far offshore into deeper, more difficult to operate in seas shouldn't be ignored.  And perhaps the best example of how well the EPA's is handling the oil spill and also how inelastic government regulations are is that of the "A Whale" skimming ship.  The world's largest oil skimming ship is at BP disposal and, as I write this, I can not find any article stating that the EPA has yet approved it's usage.  This article from Canada's Financial Post sums up the reason pretty well:
 
"Why does neither the U.S. government nor U.S. energy companies have on hand the cleanup technology available in Europe? Ironically, the superior European technology runs afoul of U.S. environmental rules. The voracious Dutch vessels, for example, continuously suck up vast quantities of oily water, extract most of the oil and then spit overboard vast quantities of nearly oil-free water. Nearly oil-free isn't good enough for the U.S. regulators, who have a standard of 15 parts per million -- if water isn't at least 99.9985% pure, it may not be returned to the Gulf of Mexico."
 
Now, this article was written before the "A Whale's" arrival, and is actually speaking to Dutch assistance that was turned down, but it's content is still apt.  The EPA's inability to adapt to the needs of the current situation have hampered the clean up process.
 
Just a couple quick personal questions for JJLehto to finish:
Do the G20 protesters scare you too or just the tea-partiers?
Do you need to use derogatory terms to refer to people who attend these gatherings?
If I were to attend a tea-party would that automatically make me scarey?


Time always wins.
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