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How to define and classify "Progressive Rock"?

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David_D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2022 at 16:29
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

It's good to see you back again, David, in this prog-nostic debate which continues to run and run - 15 pages and counting. Smile

Thanks, Paul, but I surely need a brake now. Smile



Edited by David_D - June 01 2022 at 17:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2022 at 01:18
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

It's good to see you back again, David, in this prog-nostic debate which continues to run and run - 15 pages and counting. Smile

Thanks, Paul, but I surely need a brake now. Smile


Freddie Mercury walked into an auto parts warehouse, wandered about perusing the wares, found what he was looking for, picked it up and headed for the exit.

Realising that he was about to walk out without paying, the store assistant at the till called out to him, “uh sir, you need to come over here and pay for that.”

To which Freddie replied, “God, no! I want a brake free!”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2022 at 11:34
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

.....and then starting from the nineties it seems that prog has been reborn, and today, if we consider prog every form of contamination, prog is rampant, but in reality is no longer true prog. It is the music that changes, that keeps up with the time.....

Overall, therefore, I tend to consider only (or almost) the albums of the seventies to be masterpieces of true prog.......
Clap
 
For me this is pretty much it. True Progressive Rock in the late 60s to late 70's, from there it turned into ProgRock and 90s forward it is rock music with prog tendencies, but not true Prog let alone Progressive.

It's fairly simple for me.

Even if the "retro Prog" or other modern Prog is not so innovative or doesn't have the same qualities as Progressive Rock from the 70's, they're still the continuation of the genre, and on that basis in my opinion should be considered as "Progressive Rock". Smile


Edited by David_D - June 05 2022 at 10:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2022 at 13:35

refresh

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2022 at 14:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2022 at 16:09
I had a refreshing dive into the Mediterranean this evening. Otherwise I prefer the remote control from that other thread...

The razamataz is a pain in the bum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2022 at 17:09
Is this prog?




Hmmm.....


for Progarchives, Black Midi is a Rio/AvantProg band, 


their music would be 


"an experimental post-punk avant jazz math rock combination with surprising virtuosity"

nothing else?



pS I see now there is a thread on Black Midi!


Edited by jamesbaldwin - July 27 2022 at 17:21
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2022 at 02:43
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I finally have the answer to all the endless "are Bucks Fizz prog?" type questions that we get here.

Well, I have a better suggestion:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=127835&PN=1  Tongue


Edited by David_D - July 28 2022 at 02:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2022 at 09:32
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

.... I might defend the notion that OK Computer can be considered progressive rock even if I don't really think of it as Prog "genre". ....
......
When I have used the Prog term with people, particularly with people who I know off the internet, I have used it in a more narrow way. It refers to a lot of what is called Symphonic Prog and Eclectic ones commonly -- the usual suspects like ELP, Yes, "classic" Genesis, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, VdGG, and it works for lesser known ones like Magma etc. 
.............
Lots of my favourite music I d not consider to be Prog, while I think of it as very loosely under some greater progressive umbrella, but if someone else wants to think think of it that way, and if PA decides to adopt it, fine by me.

I can tell that by now I'm in doubt about what to find being the best use of the term Progressive Rock, and I may become in favour of the double way you use, but which would be though:

1. A less including one, much similar to RYM's, which I guess is best corresponding to the historically and today mostly used one, so it can be called "Progressive Rock proper".
2. A more including one, and the way I've suggested to define Progressive Rock in my article here, which uses the term Prog as a meta-genre.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2022 at 10:51
I'm late in this game and admit not reading all 16 pages (yet). And David, the following is an attempt at constructive criticism of your blog.

Your literature review ('Some definition made/used in the past') would benefit from referencing 'definitions' found on the major online prog websites such as PA. BTW, I think you should mention Snider and Couture here rather than later.

Are you concerned with the overall definition of Progressive Rock and/or also definitions of the subgenres of Prog? If I'm not mistaking, the former is what you refer to as a broad definition and the latter as narrow definition(s)? Hence, the sum of the subgenres (narrow definition) constitutes the broadest definition, Prog. 

As ‘narrow’ and ‘broad’ definitions seem essential to your analysis, you should clarify these terms in more detail. It’s not clear to me what you mean by these terms.

What’s your problem statement? What’s wrong with existing ‘definitions’? for instance, what’s wrong with PA’s definition? Why do you bother writing a blog on this subject?! Why should I care to read your blog?

Your approach is not theoretical - I do not see any equations - but phenomenological it appears.

(In the following, I get a bit theoretical - as opposed to your study IMO - sorry, but I hope it can be inspirational to you or others…)

An equation could be a ‘property-ingredient’ relationship where the property could be neo-prog and ingredients (variables) could be instrumentation or musical style (e.g. classical) cf. your statement ‘Some parts of these bands have certain similarities and a part play even very similar kind of music. These similarities can be described’. Obviously the relations would be qualitative rather than quantitative.

Limits can be posed on these relationships either on the properties (e.g. neo-prog is one limitation) or the ingredients (e.g. brass instruments). Another limit could be on a band’s/artist’s song, album or entire album catalogue basis. These limits provide broader or narrower genre ‘definitions’.

I actually did the above ‘scientific approach’ in a PA blog of my own (with affinities to yours) many years ago.

As you can see, the properties of prog depends on its variables which depend on technological and societal changes and therefore varies over time - progressive rock! Hence, obviously, Progressive Rock broadens over time and the ‘definition’/’equation’ should account for this cf. your term ‘broader definition’.

I think you summarize/draw conclusions based on your ‘analysis’ without making it clear to the reader how you end up with your conclusion.

David, your blog is much appreciated, thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2022 at 11:24
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

It's good to see you back again, David, in this prog-nostic debate which continues to run and run - 15 pages and counting. Smile

Thanks, Paul, but I surely need a brake now. Smile


Freddie Mercury walked into an auto parts warehouse, wandered about perusing the wares, found what he was looking for, picked it up and headed for the exit.

Realising that he was about to walk out without paying, the store assistant at the till called out to him, “uh sir, you need to come over here and pay for that.”

To which Freddie replied, “God, no! I want a brake free!”

Or he could have been there because his car tyres were Under Pressure. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2022 at 11:53
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

It's good to see you back again, David, in this prog-nostic debate which continues to run and run - 15 pages and counting. Smile

Thanks, Paul, but I surely need a brake now. Smile


Freddie Mercury walked into an auto parts warehouse, wandered about perusing the wares, found what he was looking for, picked it up and headed for the exit.

Realising that he was about to walk out without paying, the store assistant at the till called out to him, “uh sir, you need to come over here and pay for that.”

To which Freddie replied, “God, no! I want a brake free!”

Or he could have been there because his car tyres were Under Pressure. Tongue
Insanity laughs, under pressure David’ breaking
Can't we give his blog one more chance?
Why can't we give prog that one more chance?
Why can't we give prog, give prog, give prog?
Give prog, give prog, give prog, give prog?
'Cause prog's such an old fashioned turd
And prog dares you to
Care for the music on the
Edge of the night
And prog dares you
To change our way of
Thinking about it…

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2022 at 16:07

Thank you very much for this input of yours, Earlyprog, and I'll think about how to relate to it. Smile








Edited by David_D - August 09 2022 at 16:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2022 at 02:30
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Or he could have been there because his car tyres were Under Pressure. Tongue

thanks, Paul Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2022 at 13:19
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

.........
And prog dares you
To change our way of
Thinking about it…
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

I can tell that by now I'm in doubt about what to find being the best use of the term Progressive Rock, and I may become in favour of the double way you use, but which would be though:

1. A less including one, much similar to RYM's, which I guess is best corresponding to the historically and today mostly used one, so it can be called "Progressive Rock proper".
2. A more including one, and the way I've suggested to define Progressive Rock in my article here, which uses the term Prog as a meta-genre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2022 at 13:49
^Too generic in my opinion, David. Only option ruled out is the obvious status quo.

I would have hoped for a more informative conclusion/status after several months and pages into your blog.

Seems that you are back to scratch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2022 at 14:53
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

And prog dares you
To change our way of
Thinking about it…
But Nick, I'm curious about why you want to define Progressive Rock as including as you do.


Edited by David_D - August 10 2022 at 15:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2022 at 15:01
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

^Too generic in my opinion, David. Only option ruled out is the obvious status quo.

I would have hoped for a more informative conclusion/status after several months and pages into your blog.

Seems that you are back to scratch.

Well, I don't think about it that way, and anyway, that's how I have moved, and it's a longer story to explain why.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2022 at 10:04
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Thank you very much for this input of yours, Earlyprog, and I'll think about how to relate to it. Smile







No worries, that's ok. Perhaps too overwhelming even after 3 days 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2022 at 12:28
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Thank you very much for this input of yours, Earlyprog, and I'll think about how to relate to it. Smile

No worries, that's ok. Perhaps too overwhelming even after 3 days 

I'm afraid, it is. Big smile

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