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Snicolette 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
Status: Offline
Points: 6048
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 Posted: January 25 2019 at 20:36 |
 The Dark Elf wrote:
Well....would you look at that...Roger Stone hauled into court. Yet another arrest in Trumputin's Kremlin Kriminal Klub. So many arrests. So many indictments. So many guilty pleas. This is the sixth Trump associate directly linked to the 2016 presidential election who has been arrested and/or indicted. One would think something illegal is going on. Quick, Donald! Dangle a wall in front of your ignorant supporters so they will be distracted. If that doesn't work, perhaps shut down the government. |
I don't think it was entirely a coinkydink that 45 broke his stupid shutdown today, trying to distract from Stone's arrest today. The noose is tightening.
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
Status: Offline
Points: 6048
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Posted: January 25 2019 at 20:37 |
Atavachron wrote:
micky wrote:
I definitely will... and fwiw.. I'm damn glad you found your way here. I"ve really enjoyed the cyber chats and perhaps when I finally make my triumphant return to Oregon (haven't been back since '85) and with Raff in tow as she has always wanted to visit the left coast.. perhaps we could meet up. David is and has long been a cyber soul mate and someone who I will get a chance to finally meet in the flesh.. especially now that he offered to buy the food and drinks the first night hahaha. Of course I'll get the 2nd night. Though if you make it.. you might get tagged for the 3rd night... I don't know about David.. but I can put it away like no ones business. |
I see two bar fights and maybe a lap dance.
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You are hilarious, David! 
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: January 26 2019 at 00:37 |
Snicolette wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Well....would you look at that...Roger Stone hauled into court. Yet another arrest in Trumputin's Kremlin Kriminal Klub. So many arrests. So many indictments. So many guilty pleas. This is the sixth Trump associate directly linked to the 2016 presidential election who has been arrested and/or indicted. One would think something illegal is going on. Quick, Donald! Dangle a wall in front of your ignorant supporters so they will be distracted. If that doesn't work, perhaps shut down the government. |
I don't think it was entirely a coinkydink that 45 broke his stupid shutdown today, trying to distract from Stone's arrest today. The noose is tightening. |
Pelosi pretty much won the staring match hands down and without having to say much while Orange hyperventilated on Twitter. From what I could gauge from the Youtube comments, his base remains committed to his narrative but he's going to lose the swing vote more and more this way. Because he doesn't have a convincing explanation for why he couldn't have already ended the shutdown much, much before he did.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: January 26 2019 at 05:59 |
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OK, so I’ve known for a long time that I’m just a sucker, and Roger Stone’s indictment seems a case in point.
The thing is that in the interviews he’s given after his arrest, to me he comes across as honest and genuine.
This, to me, is shocking, because regardless of what Robert Muller might have on him and all the surrounding
circumstances, I was always prepared to see him as another of Trump’s criminal cronies.
Now I’m not so sure because he seems so genuine in these interviews in a hostile environment (CNN). Is he just
playing me?
Is he really that persuasive on TV, pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes, is he relying on a presidential
pardon, or is he really somehow that innocent as he seems? I’m flummoxed on this one.
Any opinions?
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
Status: Offline
Points: 6048
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Posted: January 26 2019 at 07:17 |
rogerthat wrote:
Pelosi pretty much won the staring match hands down and without having to say much while Orange hyperventilated on Twitter. From what I could gauge from the Youtube comments, his base remains committed to his narrative but he's going to lose the swing vote more and more this way. Because he doesn't have a convincing explanation for why he couldn't have already ended the shutdown much, much before he did. |
And he put 800K people's livelihoods at risk for the longest shutdown in history, not to mention, arguably, the safety of the nation itself, far more than any danger from the southern border. And the shutdown cost more than what he was asking for the wall in the first place.
M-O-O-N spells dumb.
Edited by Snicolette - January 26 2019 at 09:26
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13203
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Posted: January 26 2019 at 09:06 |
npjnpj wrote:
OK, so I’ve known for a long time that I’m just a sucker, and Roger Stone’s indictment seems a case in point.
The thing is that in the interviews he’s given after his arrest, to me he comes across as honest and genuine.
This, to me, is shocking, because regardless of what Robert Muller might have on him and all the surrounding
circumstances, I was always prepared to see him as another of Trump’s criminal cronies.
Now I’m not so sure because he seems so genuine in these interviews in a hostile environment (CNN). Is he just
playing me?
Is he really that persuasive on TV, pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes, is he relying on a presidential
pardon, or is he really somehow that innocent as he seems? I’m flummoxed on this one.
Any opinions? |
If I may quote Keyser Soze from the movie The Usual Suspects: " The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
Stone has been an inveterate liar, provocateur and conspiracist for decades. There is no truth or lies in his words, only spin. I expect the federal judge will soon clamp down on his spin interviews in short order, like she did in the Manafort case.
Mueller has handled this entire investigation like the impeccable professional he is: no spin, no tweets, hardly any commentary in the press, and only releasing major revelations in the form of indictments and arrests. And every one of these has stuck and ended in guilty pleas or convictions.
It should be noted that all six Trump associates directly related to the 2016 election has a charge of lying as one of the indictments against them. Five pleaded guilty or were found guilty. Stone is now the sixth.
If I were a Las Vegas odds-maker, I would bet on Mueller. In fact, based on Mueller's track record, I would venture to say that there is already enough evidence for Stone to be found guilty and convicted. He just doesn't know it yet.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 09:48 |
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So, the arms control treaty is in the process of being cancelled by the US in 180 days.
It can justifiably be argued that it wasn't as effective as expected, but the way I see it is that instead of working on the problem,
the USA is now taking all and any shackles off Russia and enabling them to develop and install nuclear weapons without risk of repercussions.
Might this have something to do with the hush-hush one-on-one meetings between Trump and Putin, I wonder?
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 11:47 |
npjnpj wrote:
the USA is now taking all and any shackles off Russia and enabling them to develop and install nuclear weapons without risk of repercussions.
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What are you talking about?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 17:01 |
well that was interesting... and killed the battery on my cellphone talking with my friends..
so what do you all think... should he resign or not... funny. My best friend who thinks the Governor was a piece of sh*t and thus voted 3rd party thinks he should not resign... me.. voted for him..and think he should.
what say you all... this is obviously different than just happened in Florida... should relatively harmless mistakes of youth (or apparent drunkeness of which I am a certified expert thus completely disqualified to ever run for elected office unless the Libertarians become a serious political party) disqualify candidates.. well not as much that.. as they still have to be elected... but for already elected officials.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
Status: Offline
Points: 6048
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 17:40 |
This is why my grandmother always said, "Don't do anything you wouldn't want to see on the front page of The New York Times." Or in his case, The Virginia Pilot. Apparently, he lacked a grandmother, or maybe she would have approved of this sort of behaviour. It was 1984, he was in medical school, he should have known better and understood by that age that it was offensive. It does bring to bear whether he has good judgement in enough supply to represent all of the people of the State of Virginia, even though he is older now. Should he resign? I would think he would want to and kind of want the earth to swallow him up after being publicly shown to be a fool (even if a young fool).
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10676
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 18:10 |
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I hate racism to the max, but no, he should not resign. Mistakes happen, that's why pencils have erasers, he apologized which means he knows this was stupid, and it did happen a long time ago. People should be given credit for learning from their mistakes and growing up and moving on.
I think he learned from his mistake so now its up to others to forgive and give him credit for taking full responsibility
Instead of going after silly nonsense like this, a better way to fight racism would be to take a look at individual criminal convictions in which racism played a part, or other situations involving our justice system.
Fight institutional racism, not some poor individual who screwed up long ago and has apologized.
Edited by Easy Money - February 01 2019 at 18:13
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65549
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 18:10 |
micky wrote:
well that was interesting... and killed the battery on my cellphone talking with my friends..
so what do you all think... should he resign or not... funny. My best friend who thinks the Governor was a piece of sh*t and thus voted 3rd party thinks he should not resign... me.. voted for him..and think he should.
what say you all... this is obviously different than just happened in Florida... should relatively harmless mistakes of youth (or apparent drunkeness of which I am a certified expert thus completely disqualified to ever run for elected office unless the Libertarians become a serious political party) disqualify candidates.. well not as much that.. as they still have to be elected... but for already elected officials. |
Hmm. His response was good, best I've read in a long time. And he's a Dem which is a shame.
The first question is are people allowed to change ~ and be forgiven ~ after a foolish youthful act? I say Yes, but not in politics. Look, if John Kennedy had lost a second election because of infidelity, so be it. We would've gotten Hubert Humphrey or Bobby Kennedy or someone like that as President (as Kennedy had decided to drop Johnson from the '64 ticket). This is far worse than Bill Clinton's affair with Lewinsky, and to be honest it is on par with his sexual abuse allegations from Kathleen Willie, who I absolutely believe. Clinton was an utter scumbag and basically a rapist. I don't care who you are, your politics, or what you'll 'do for the country. There's a limit, no matter what one's ideals are. It's too big a price.
The second question is should he resign? I say Probably.
We all must live with our past, but also with the repercussions. That's how we (and everyone else) learns what's important. Should a right-winger have to resign for the same thing? Of course, and this guy could show real courage and integrity by resigning. He could be personally and ethically redeemed.
Oh the tangled web we weave.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
Status: Offline
Points: 6048
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 18:25 |
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
Status: Offline
Points: 6048
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 18:29 |
Easy Money wrote:
I hate racism to the max, but no, he should not resign. Mistakes happen, that's why pencils have erasers, he apologized which means he knows this was stupid, and it did happen a long time ago. People should be given credit for learning from their mistakes and growing up and moving on.
I think he learned from his mistake so now its up to others to forgive and give him credit for taking full responsibility
Instead of going after silly nonsense like this, a better way to fight racism would be to take a look at individual criminal convictions in which racism played a part, or other situations involving our justice system.
Fight institutional racism, not some poor individual who screwed up long ago and has apologized. |
Yes, we all do stupid things and hopefully learn from them, we don't even have to be young to be stupid sometimes...I also agree that we need to fight institutional racism. I hear what you're saying, but this was in 1984, not 1954. And even though he was young, he should have known better, despite the fact that we are fighting racism (and some other isms) to this day.
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10676
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 18:35 |
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I still see this as a distraction and not truly fighting racism.
If you want to fight racism, take a look at our justice system and fix it, that would be fighting racism.
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
Status: Offline
Points: 6048
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 18:42 |
Of course, that would be wonderful...Nonetheless, he needs to face the music for his choices if they are dumb ones.
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10676
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 18:50 |
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Once again, I think this is a convenient way for people to pat themselves on the back in thinking they have done something to fight racism, while ignoring the huge ugly elephant in the room, our racist justice system.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 19:46 |
Atavachron wrote:
micky wrote:
well that was interesting... and killed the battery on my cellphone talking with my friends..
so what do you all think... should he resign or not... funny. My best friend who thinks the Governor was a piece of sh*t and thus voted 3rd party thinks he should not resign... me.. voted for him..and think he should.
what say you all... this is obviously different than just happened in Florida... should relatively harmless mistakes of youth (or apparent drunkeness of which I am a certified expert thus completely disqualified to ever run for elected office unless the Libertarians become a serious political party) disqualify candidates.. well not as much that.. as they still have to be elected... but for already elected officials. |
Hmm. His response was good, best I've read in a long time. And he's a Dem which is a shame.
The first question is are people allowed to change ~ and be forgiven ~ after a foolish youthful act? I say Yes, but not in politics. Look, if John Kennedy had lost a second election because of infidelity, so be it. We would've gotten Hubert Humphrey or Bobby Kennedy or someone like that as President (as Kennedy had decided to drop Johnson from the '64 ticket). This is far worse than Bill Clinton's affair with Lewinsky, and to be honest it is on par with his sexual abuse allegations from Kathleen Willie, who I absolutely believe. Clinton was an utter scumbag and basically a rapist. I don't care who you are, your politics, or what you'll 'do for the country. There's a limit, no matter what one's ideals are. It's too big a price.
The second question is should he resign? I say Probably.
We all must live with our past, but also with the repercussions. That's how we (and everyone else) learns what's important. Should a right-winger have to resign for the same thing? Of course, and this guy could show real courage and integrity by resigning. He could be personally and ethically redeemed.
Oh the tangled web we weave.
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helluva post brother and spot frickin on...
according to informal polls... people here are pretty much split down the middle by this. My informal poll matches that. Raff thinks he should not have to resign... I think he should...
Yes it wasn't like that moron down in Florida with obvious racial malice ... and was in the grand scheme of things... well.. a generally harmless stupid act done in a different time and age. I mean it was posted in a damn school handbook.. that should say enough about how different the norms were back then. It was 30 years ago.. it is easy to judge acts then through the prism of today. We have come a long way.. not far enough.. but making progress.
What you nailed David is the why's he should. Not as punishment... but a statement.. best coming from him and taking the high moral ground, but in lieu of that.. a statement that after what we have seen in the last few years.. we .. this country deserve better than crooks, charlatans.. and flawed individuals. He could.. and SHOULD take the first step in helping the country.. and us.. remember that our elected officials are not just pigs sucking at the pubic tit and getting fat at the public trough.. but should be of the highest character and whose first thought is not their cushy jobs.. we of public service to those that elected them. He made a mstake... don't let it be seen as punishment.. but a lesson... and it would be best served being delivered by Northam himself.. not by being forced out which I do think will eventually happen. I really don't think the Black community is going to let this slide.. it was wrong.. regardless if it came from friendly fire rather than hostile fire... if it was a Republican he'd be out already... especially with who is waiting in the wings here to take over teh Governor's seat.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10676
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 19:52 |
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This man's foolish youthful act is not the face of racism in the US, its just an easy and convenient target.
The face of racism in this country is people who can't get a job, a fair trial, a bank loan etc, because of their race. Its people who live every minute of their life knowing they will not get a fair deal because others are looking at them for their race, whether at school, work, the grocery store, the car lot etc.
The face of racism in this country is those at the top who willfully keep others down. The gov., is not that person. Going after the gov. may help people feel like they are fighting racism, but its seems more like an obvious and easy target. It would be better if this energy was directed at much more serious racial problems of which there are plenty, some of which are inside ourselves.
Edited by Easy Money - February 02 2019 at 15:25
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 01 2019 at 19:56 |
Easy Money wrote:
Once again, I think this is a convenient way for people to pat themselves on the back in thinking they have done something to fight racism, while ignoring the huge ugly elephant in the room, our racist justice system. |
I tend to look at the larger elephant in the room... I think we have made strides in combating racism but for one very important point it will never be truly erased.
Racism here is unfortunately self perpetuating... images of blacks rioting and acting the fools and burning down their own neighborhoods is NOT going to help change the hearts and minds of the mentally and intellectually challenged.
however it isn't the justice system that is the big ugly elephant in the room IMO.. that is just the symptom of the far graver problem. The lack of education and economic opportunity.. which is obviously not limited to the black community in general.. but obviously is a large reason why many black will end up dead or in prison before they hit their adult years.
criminal justice reform is important.. what is vital though is putting the breaks on the ever widdening gult between haves and have nots and readdressing our economic priorities to value the worker.. not the f**king corporate CEO..
*the preceding campaign ad not paid for by Liz Warren* 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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