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King of Loss 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16889
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 Posted: June 01 2014 at 12:36 |
 Guldbamsen wrote:
Aren't most cultures the result of "melting pots" though? Take Malta for instance. I've been there many times, and I think they would say they belong to a their own culture, yet it's a meeting between Arabia, Italy and Britain. Even if you look to ancient Eastern cultures you'll see mosaically woven histories that too stem from the meeting of different peoples. The Us is just a youngin. |
Deleted
Edited by King of Loss - June 02 2014 at 16:42
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16889
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 12:37 |
Maximos wrote:
I don't really think the situation calls for a fistfight, I think you'd have been better off educating him, give him a little history lesson. The idea that American's have no culture, not sure where it comes from, it's easy to fling about, but it's a misguided view that isn't based in any real fact.
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Deleted
Edited by King of Loss - June 02 2014 at 16:42
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 13:16 |
The indiginous peoples of America have got culture and the others have got Burger King. 
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Help me I'm falling!
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13228
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 13:23 |
King of Loss wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
Aren't most cultures the result of "melting pots" though? Take Malta for instance. I've been there many times, and I think they would say they belong to a their own culture, yet it's a meeting between Arabia, Italy and Britain. Even if you look to ancient Eastern cultures you'll see mosaically woven histories that too stem from the meeting of different peoples. The Us is just a youngin. |
I think it's not a matter of taste or of opinion, but here's how I see it:
My cousin who goes to St. Mark's School here in the Boston area -> Goes to a school completely based on the British boarding school model with a strong school that has a profound tradition of education based on the British model, with an emphasis on a religion that is profoundly American, yet British. They mostly study philosophy, arts, etc. based on the British Model with a strong Greco/Roman foundation. What the US is good at, much like Japan, is good at importing cultures from other countries and changing it to adapt the frontier style. I never said that the US doesn't have any culture, just not much of an intellectual culture of its own.... |
The world has borrowed more of U.S. culture in the past 50 years than vice versa. Everything from the blue jeans you are wearing, to the rock music you are listening to, the technology that runs the PC you are typing on.
As far as this intellectual culture you are harping on but not describing in any logical manner, in the case you described, the British do not have a culture of their own, neither do the French or Italians, as it was all borrowed from Rome (and the Greeks before them). This would include their languages as well, and their art also. All borrowed. Regarding this St. Mark's School, I would say that it is such a rarity that it should not be inclusive of this discussion.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16889
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 13:27 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
I think the US has a frontier culture, which is prone to be accused of lacking intellectual culture, which is true, but America has a vibrant commercial and corporate culture, which is something of a different animal. It does have absolutely no intellectual tradition of its own..., but nevertheless to each its own!
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What exactly do you mean by "intellectual tradition" and that the U.S. has none? I am wondering what specifically you are referring to and how narrow your definition might be. The U.S. certainly has its own literary tradition, utterly divorced from European tradition (with great authors that Atavachron pointed out, and more that I would suggest); it has a music tradition that is perhaps stronger than many European nations (Americans, after all, invented jazz, blues, country-western and rock & roll); as far as science, I don't believe any single country could compare to the U.S. in the past 150 years in regards to scientific advancement; in philosophy, the profound political thought of the framers of the U.S. Constitution actually influenced the French Revolution (and because they were French, they naturally botched it ), and then there was Thoureau and Emerson, Santayana, David Kellogg-Lewis, and many more.
So, again, what exactly are you referring to, because I don't believe you know what you're talking about. It would seem you have a distorted view of what makes America, driven by a clutch of prejudices, jaded beliefs and opinions -- an outsider's view who only watches TV.
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Edited by King of Loss - June 02 2014 at 16:42
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16889
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 13:53 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
Aren't most cultures the result of "melting pots" though? Take Malta for instance. I've been there many times, and I think they would say they belong to a their own culture, yet it's a meeting between Arabia, Italy and Britain. Even if you look to ancient Eastern cultures you'll see mosaically woven histories that too stem from the meeting of different peoples. The Us is just a youngin. |
I think it's not a matter of taste or of opinion, but here's how I see it:
My cousin who goes to St. Mark's School here in the Boston area -> Goes to a school completely based on the British boarding school model with a strong school that has a profound tradition of education based on the British model, with an emphasis on a religion that is profoundly American, yet British. They mostly study philosophy, arts, etc. based on the British Model with a strong Greco/Roman foundation. What the US is good at, much like Japan, is good at importing cultures from other countries and changing it to adapt the frontier style. I never said that the US doesn't have any culture, just not much of an intellectual culture of its own.... |
The world has borrowed more of U.S. culture in the past 50 years than vice versa. Everything from the blue jeans you are wearing, to the rock music you are listening to, the technology that runs the PC you are typing on.
As far as this intellectual culture you are harping on but not describing in any logical manner, in the case you described, the British do not have a culture of their own, neither do the French or Italians, as it was all borrowed from Rome (and the Greeks before them). This would include their languages as well, and their art also. All borrowed. Regarding this St. Mark's School, I would say that it is such a rarity that it should not be inclusive of this discussion.
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Deleted
Edited by King of Loss - June 02 2014 at 16:42
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 14:49 |
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The only people ever with a culture of their own were the Neanderthalians.
/thread.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 15:29 |
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We have culture, unfortunately some of that culture consists of idiots,,,
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 15:37 |
akamaisondufromage wrote:
The indiginous peoples of America have got culture and the others have got Burger King.
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The burger king creeps me out and I'm certain I am not alone aieeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 16:25 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
The indiginous peoples of America have got culture and the others have got Burger King.
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The burger king creeps me out and I'm certain I am not alone aieeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!
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Is that a Hamburger Lady type joke? Or is that the fear of corporate Merica ?
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Help me I'm falling!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 18:19 |
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
The indiginous peoples of America have got culture and the others have got Burger King.
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The burger king creeps me out and I'm certain I am not alone aieeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!
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Is that a Hamburger Lady type joke?
Or is that the fear of corporate Merica ?
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I think Brian means the burger king creeps him out, (as opposed to Burger King the corporate entity or the TG lyric)
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What?
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65603
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 20:39 |
King of Loss wrote:
I've had people, both American and non-American, agree with this statement I had made. Of course, there were plenty that disagreed with me such as here, so I decided to test it here. Hopefully, I don't have to write many essays here...  |
Oh I think you will have to write quite a few essays, as the hole you've dug is rather deep and the backup you've provided seems not much more than "we came from Europe and still have some of their traditions". So yeah, keep those essays coming because the America of the 20th & 21st Centuries barely resembles the bizarre East Coast post-Puritan mindset you seem to visualize.
Edited by Atavachron - June 01 2014 at 20:40
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 20:50 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
We have culture, unfortunately some of that culture consists of idiots,,,
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A culture of bacteria
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16889
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 21:11 |
Deleted
Edited by King of Loss - June 02 2014 at 16:43
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65603
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 22:20 |
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Which you will prove by writing an essay? It doesn't follow. It will either be convincing ~ showing you are an intellectually cultured and educated North American ~ or it won't.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16889
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Posted: June 01 2014 at 23:00 |
Atavachron wrote:
Which you will prove by writing an essay? It doesn't follow. It will either be convincing ~ showing you are an intellectually cultured and educated North American ~ or it won't.
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Deleted
Edited by King of Loss - June 02 2014 at 16:43
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: June 02 2014 at 06:55 |
King of Loss wrote:
Ok. I will type an essay for you, but I never said that America DOESN'T HAVE culture, just not a strong intellectual culture and tradition....
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My colleague's sarcasm shouldn't be lost on an intellectually
cultured man methinks? Do younger countries such as the USA and
Australia forfeit cultural legitimacy because they can't produce the ID
card you seem to insist upon? (Come back when your societies are
thousands of years old) Regardless, since when did shared beliefs and practices have to qualify as being completely original or unprecedented before they are considered intellectual culture? It is sufficient that values are shared and accepted for
culture to take place at all. Water doesn't have to run uphill to
qualify localised science as having a cultural tradition of its own.
Similarly in the arts, our composers can call the culturally acknowledged pitch 'A' 440 Hz anything
they damn well like but it wont make the note any higher or lower y'all.
Edited by ExittheLemming - June 02 2014 at 06:58
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16889
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Posted: June 02 2014 at 08:51 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Ok. I will type an essay for you, but I never said that America DOESN'T HAVE culture, just not a strong intellectual culture and tradition....
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My colleague's sarcasm shouldn't be lost on an intellectually
cultured man methinks? Do younger countries such as the USA and
Australia forfeit cultural legitimacy because they can't produce the ID
card you seem to insist upon? (Come back when your societies are
thousands of years old) Regardless, since when did shared beliefs and practices have to qualify as being completely original or unprecedented before they are considered intellectual culture? It is sufficient that values are shared and accepted for
culture to take place at all. Water doesn't have to run uphill to
qualify localised science as having a cultural tradition of its own.
Similarly in the arts, our composers can call the culturally acknowledged pitch 'A' 440 Hz anything
they damn well like but it wont make the note any higher or lower y'all.
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Edited by King of Loss - June 02 2014 at 16:43
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: June 02 2014 at 08:56 |
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"I simultaneously disagree with you at the same time"
Certainly would be difficult for you to simultaneously disagree with him next Tuesday.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16889
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Posted: June 02 2014 at 09:16 |
Padraic wrote:
"I simultaneously disagree with you at the same time"
Certainly would be difficult for you to simultaneously disagree with him next Tuesday.
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deleted
Edited by King of Loss - June 02 2014 at 16:44
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Americans Have No Culture
