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Davesax1965 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 2839
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 Posted: January 28 2018 at 10:17 |
In a moderate and balanced reply. Is Sergeant Pepper Prog ? - it's subjective. I don't think it matters if it is or not. I think asking the question is merely a waste of time. I find the OP to be one put up more or less for the sake of putting a post up. There's a lot of this on here.
I wish there were less, for the sake of quality of the board.
I also think that if someone thinks that on any forum, all threads MUST refer to an OP, that person should perhaps realise that they don't make the rules, and perhaps cogitate on that before calling people trolls or issuing a tantrum ultimatum.
The point of "this is a junk thread" is a valid one.
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
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Points: 1409
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 17:48 |
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Sgt Pepper is as much prog, as Kind Of Blue is death metal
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65258
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 19:53 |
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the Sergeant was prog before there was prog, but it ain't no more.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15243
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 20:44 |
Is Dr Pepper cola? 
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20604
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 03:58 |
 Davesax1965 wrote:
In a moderate and balanced reply.
Is Sergeant Pepper Prog ? - it's subjective.
I don't think it matters if it is or not.
I think asking the question is merely a waste of time.
I find the OP to be one put up more or less for the sake of putting a post up.There's a lot of this on here.
I wish there were less, for the sake of quality of the board.
I also think that if someone thinks that on any forum, all threads MUST refer to an OP, that person should perhaps realise that they don't make the rules, and perhaps cogitate on that before calling people trolls or issuing a tantrum ultimatum.
The point of "this is a junk thread" is a valid one. |
We've derailed this thread long enough. We can reconvene in the next "Is Pepper's prog thread?", which be posted in the next few weeks if past practice is anything to go by, where you can once again deride the OP's question. I will once again take offence that a 12-14 year that has just discovered prog after ditching the crud of Bruno Mars and 21 Pilots has his thread topic trashed. Hopefully by that time, Greg (Dark Elf) will develop some wit and make his mock lyrics actually funny. As talented blues guitarist are not known for brilliant lyrics, I won't hold my breath. But then again, why should they?
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 05:35 |
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"We've derailed this thread long enough"
Speak for yourself, Steve.
Some threads need derailing. For example, the ones posted by a hip hop producer about "how to make fresh beats". By your logic, anyone can come on here, put up any irrelevant or inane thread and we all have to nicely reply to the OP, not going off topic or anything.
"Valid criticism".
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20604
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 05:44 |
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Thread bashing is not valid criticism. Not in your world or this one. Babble on if you must, as I said, I'll see you in the next "Pepper is Prog?" thread.
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 06:34 |
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Steve, if you want to tell people how to use the internet, please buy your own version of it.
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Tillerman88
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 31 2015
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 495
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 06:55 |
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Of course he is.......grumpy old, naivy and a heluva pain in the ass character ..ha ha haha
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The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
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Points: 1409
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 17:08 |
Atavachron wrote:
the Sergeant was prog before there was prog, but it ain't no more.
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Nope, Zappa, The Nice and King Crimson where prog before there was prog. The Beatles where still pop rock on Sgt Pepper
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Points: 65258
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 17:22 |
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^ Oh we're nitpicking first prog band? I'm afraid if Beach Boys take that prize.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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micky
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 18:39 |
^ oh we're nitpicking first prog band. I'm afraid Dave Brubeck takes that prize.
let's not forget what prog was about boys and girls.. and frankly.. studio improvements aside... neither did what Brubeck did in 1959. Create what we associate MUSICALLY to be prog. Metric complexity, atypical arrangements, fearsome virtuosity, and diverse influence...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 19:13 |
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Yep, it's a vicious circle, which I guess is why most of us stopped debating it-- it was a process: there was no first prog band.
Edited by Atavachron - January 29 2018 at 19:14
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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micky
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 19:15 |
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oh of course there was a first 'prog band'... The Nice... as well as putting out the first true prog album a year before ITCOTCK.
Edited by micky - January 29 2018 at 19:16
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 19:37 |
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^ i'd tend to agree when it comes to symph-oriented British prog
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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micky
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 19:52 |
it is the first hard core... beyond a shadow of a doubt (can't really argue otherwise) group and album.. where it gets fun is trying to beat Emerson and the boys.....
Sgt Peppers?.. yeah maybe.. but in my mind the obvious album and group that one could argue persuasively, passionately AND intelligently both for and against would be the Moodies and Days of Future Passed. Much more than anything the Beatles did or the Beach Boys.. that was was closest if not squarely within the realm of what would soon be known as prog rock and the benchmarks which very quickly came to define it.. and it was fusing rock and European classical music.
Edited by micky - January 29 2018 at 19:54
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Points: 65258
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Posted: January 29 2018 at 20:23 |
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And while we're on it, that first Procol Harum is not to be underestimated
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 2839
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Posted: January 30 2018 at 06:47 |
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Oh go on, let's have an interesting conversation, then, although the thread is ill advised. (Steve. ;-) )
Sergeant Peppers is quite a fantastic album which popped out of nowhere, a real ground breaker. I think the tracks on it are so varied, encompassing pop, psychedelia, creative sound effects, that it's difficult to put an absolute label on it (and I hate labels anyway). I first remember hearing it in about 1970 (I was five at the time) and thinking that it sounded amazing.
If only modern bands could come up with such groundbreaking albums.
Is it prog ? - I'm honestly, honestly not bothered. That point might have come across. ;-)
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
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Points: 10617
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Posted: January 30 2018 at 06:58 |
micky wrote:
^ oh we're nitpicking first prog band. I'm afraid Dave Brubeck takes that prize.
let's not forget what prog was about boys and girls.. and frankly.. studio improvements aside... neither did what Brubeck did in 1959. Create what we associate MUSICALLY to be prog. Metric complexity, atypical arrangements, fearsome virtuosity, and diverse influence... |
Metric complexity hardly begins with Brubeck, besides the music of Africa, Middle East, India, Eastern Europe and Indonesia, you have jazz musicians like Max Roach who could play rhythms far beyond Brubeck's gang. Bill Evans and his group slip in and out of odd meters superimposed over 4/4 at will, almost telapathicaly (sp). Brubeck played odd meters in a way that was easy for Westerners to hear and understand, which is similar to what prog rockers do.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 30 2018 at 07:05 |
Yep, Brubeck came up with the meter for Blue Rondo a la Turk after listening to Turkish musicians playing in 9/8 time. Unusual time signatures or scales do not make a prog rock piece. As Easy Money says, unusual time sigs and scales have been around since time immemorial. Western modal music is based on ancient Greek ideas.
They didn't have Mellotrons, either.
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Is Sgt Pepper Prog?