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Jared 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Offline Points: 19306 |
 Topic: Tribute Bands; A Good or A Bad Thing?Posted: February 24 2008 at 07:09 |
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Last night, I went to see a Genesis tribute band; the first time I have ever actually seen one, as I admit to having some reservations about them as a 'genre'. Admittedly, their live show was very good, playing for a little under 3 hours to an appreciative audience of 170 in a small town in Mid Wales, many of whom were wearing Genesis T-shirts from different eras, while some wore the T shirts belonging to the band themselves.
They had attempted to recreate a Genesis live performance from the 'Seconds Out' tour, with a similar set-list, similar style light show, vocalist doing a Phil Collins impersonation and guitarist who was a Mike Rutherford look-a-like (albeit from circa 1997, not 1977!).
On the evidence of last night, there is no doubt there is a market for this kind of thing, but the question I wish to ask is...is this a good thing for progressive music?
It is my belief that most prog rock fans have a finite amount of time to attend concerts, and a finite amount of money in their pockets. The UK has seen an incredible rise in recent years of Tribute Bands, to the extent that their presence must detract from contemporary bands from making a living.
In the not too distant past, I have been to gigs where Threshold, Pallas, Riverside, IQ & Mostly Autumn (among others) have pulled smaller crowds in more densely populated areas, and I suspect that if this tribute band had written and performed their own material, they would have playing in front of 50 people instead of 170.
My other question is, to what degree can this be considered 'art'? It is well known that bands like Deep Purple and Led Zep used to improvise on stage to such a degree that the live tracks only bore occasional resemblance to the studio versions of the tracks they were playing... if you are trying to recreate the sound of 1977 Genesis, doesn't it become more of a finite science?
I'd be most interested in the views of fellow PA members over this issue, which is why I've placed it in the Prog Music Lounge. Edited by fandango - February 24 2008 at 07:11 |
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 07:36 |
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Hi Jared
Hope you had a good night. Sorry I couldn't make it. I saw 'In the Cage' at last years Genesis convention in London. They were pretty good, and it's thanks to tribute bands that those of us who were still in nappies the first time round, get the chance to hear the music live. Failing that we could fork out hunderds of pounds to see the real Genesis every 10 years, and hope we get 15 minutes of medley, admist all the pop. I still hope to see 'The Musical Box' one day. On the other hand, these bands are like wax museums brought to life, and plugged into the mains. 'The Musical Box' is judged on how much like Genesis they sound and look; they imitate to the finest detail. In principle they are just as valid or invalid from an artistic perspective as an Elvis, or Buddy Holly tribute act. They dont write songs, and they dont improvise and expand on the orginal. They are the supply to the demand for nostalgia. It's entertainment, and nothing more in that respect. It is a tragedy that a band like IQ was still only pulling a crowd of a few hunderd in central London, after decades in the business. It's what happens if, as a band you either form at the wrong time - like the countless US acts; Glass Hammer Spocks Beard et al - or just didn't get lucky, like IQ, Pallas, Pendragon etc, who all formed at the same sort of time as Marillion who DID get lucky. |
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Raff
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 07:44 |
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I've never been to a tribute band gig, but I am quite sure that, even if I had the opportunity (which I have), I would rather not go. If I want to listen to Genesis or Deep Purple in their heyday, I have plenty of their albums, and now we have access to excellent video material. What is the purpose of accurately recreating something that is ultimately fake - especially as, like Andy and Jared pointed out, 'real' bands are struggling to find an audience? Personally, I'd rather listen to a band or artist interpreting somebody else's material in their own individual way, even if very different from the original.
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Anaon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2005 Location: Kobaïa Status: Offline Points: 849 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 07:51 |
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If it's bands like The Musical Box, I say yes!! I would have loved to see a Genesis gig in the 70's so, The Musical Box was a chance for me to taste a bit what could be Genesis in the 70's. This Foxtrot concert was so great!! Goosebumps from the beginning til the end!
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Offline Points: 19306 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 07:51 |
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 08:06 |
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You could regard tribute bands like you would a concert orchestra, no one criticises the RPO for being a Tchaikovsky or Mozart (or Pink Floyd or Rick Wakeman come to that) tribute band. In another thread Real Paradox asked whether Progressive Music will be recalled as Mozart in the future, when the music of those bands is recreated by these tribute bands then that is a distinct possibility - once the music has a life of it's own outside the original recording artist it's potential longevity increases. (okay, not at the same level as Mozart, but maybe as some of the lesser known composers such as Spohr or Ives). Sometime in the future, when the original artists are long gone, their music will live-on outside the original studio recording by virtue of the tribute bands that perform that music. The biggest UK tribute band at the moment is probably T.Rextasy, they have elevated the concept of "tribute" beyond simple nostalgia and homage and are bringing Marc Bolan's music back to life (or back to live). These bands are fulfilling an obvious need - attendance at these gigs reflects the idea that people want to hear this music, regardless of who actually performs it. Admittedly some of this is pure nostalgia for the original, but I think it is also working at another level, introducing people to the music afresh. When the original band no longer performs the music, or recreates the stage show, (for whatever reason) then the faithful recreation of that music/stage show is valid. It is often joked that some 70s bands have become their own tributes, only playing their greatest hits, while others are criticised for not playing them - this way everyone wins. Some tribute bands are playing original material (I think there are a couple on the PA for that reason), others are made of musicians who are in other bands that do. One of the problems with being a musician is earning a living at it - tribute bands provide an additional source of income for these musicians.
Anyway, when are you ever going to be able to see the real Genesis playing in Brecon for £14?
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What?
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 08:11 |
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I think it's likely that there are Genesis and Floyd fans out there (for example), who only have a passing interest in, or a vague awareness of other prog bands, past or present. Die hard fans of say, Gentle Giant or VDGG are more likely to have their ear to the ground, listening out for any prog bands playing live. There is also the classic prog vs Neo prog divide for some. Many fans of classic era prog may have no desire whatosover to see IQ or Pendragon, who were not big bands even at the height of their success. I would like to see more larger scale prog events, that include neo acts alongside some big names, playing in either festival format, or over a number of days in prestigious venues like the Royal Albert Hall. I'm sure that between all the surviving big names in progressive music, there is the will for this, and certainly the level of interest among prog fans to make this a success. It would expose fans of neo to classic prog, and vice versa, possibly swelling audiences when the lesser well known acts go on tour under their own steam. Nice idea, anyway.. |
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mpomy
Forum Groupie 
Joined: January 18 2008 Location: Philadelphia Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 08:18 |
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I was very glad to get the opportunity to see what a Genesis looked like back in the early 70's. I haven't really felt the need to go see other tribute bands, especially in cases where improv was a big part of the original performance. That's especially true with Pink Floyd. I do agree with the comment that in some cases (like Gabriel-era Genesis) it's like classical music and the tribute bands can act as modern "preservation" societies. |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 08:28 |
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Although, the principle difference with classical music, is that the scores were written for whoever could perfom them. At any one time a Beethoven or Mahler symphony could be being performed by any number of orchestras anywhere in the world, and this was pretty much the situation soon after the scores had been penned. No one orchestra had the rights to any one piece. Anyway, I'd still love to see The Musical Box. I remember Phil Collins commenting on how much better TMB were, than Genesis in the early 70's, in terms of musicianship and sound. Stands to reason I guess, as Genesis were very young back then, and TMB are probably all in their 40's now. |
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Offline Points: 19306 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 09:13 |
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you've made a lot of really interesting points there Dean, and of course this last quote is very true. I guess my argument sounded slightly critical of tribute bands, which it was not meant to be; I had a great time... I guess the debate was a little more along the lines of 'is home taping killing music?'
I for one LOVE to hear new stuff, and I guess I am still a little raw over the Cancellation of ProgPower III next month, along with the realisation that 3 bands I really wanted to see, might never play on these shores again as a consequence.
Andy is quite right though, in that the relationship with classical music is tenuous...many composers, most notably Handel, Mozart and Haydn, wrote their music as commissioned pieces (mostly by Hapsburg royalty) and as such were put in the public domain almost immediately. Often the composer wopuld conduct the first few Operas/ Chamber pieces in front of the Duke/ Monarch, but within 6 months the piece would have been performed in concert halls throughout the empire...
this is quite different to our traditional perception of recording and performing rights within 20th cent popular music, where if anyone called themselves Regenesis in 1977 and toured 'Wind & Wuthering', they would have been taken to court...
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 15745 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 09:44 |
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Ageree with that.. I've been to 2 Pink Floyd tributes one from my country playing The Wall, very good indeed and well the most famous Aussie Floyd, they were great too. |
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Zwerg Bart
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 29 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 62 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 10:57 |
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I have mixed feelings about the topic. I would certainly prefer to see the band that wrote the music perform it rather than a tribute/cover band. However, that's just not possible nowadays for a lot of my favorites who have lost members or broken up. Zappa plays Zappa is obviously the closest thing I will ever get to seeing Frank's music played as it was in his heyday. Tribute bands certainly aren't harming prog, they are giving younger fans who haven't had a chance to see the original bands to experience the music live and to be able to appreciate the complexity of the music.
The issue of unoriginality is the biggest for me, but if I only knew the music of a band without knowing what they looked like or even if they were still together and saw one of these tributes which performed excellently under the false pretense that it was the original band, would I really know the difference? So, perhaps this problem is more of a mental bias than a real problem...
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"Freud's cranium is a snail!" - Dali
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006 Location: Methil Republic Status: Offline Points: 1594 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 12:16 |
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I've seen a few tribute bands, both prog and non-prog. I'd rather travel 10 miles and pay a reasonable price to see a good tribute band than have to travel 500 miles and pay a fortune for a ticket to see the real thing in some ghastly enormodome.
Then there are artists who aren't around any more or have changed the style of music they play, for example Marc Bolan or Genesis. Tribute bands are a great way to experience these acts. I've seen T-Rextacy and I suspect that they probably sounded better than T Rex did (and, having just read Tony Visconti's autobiography, Danielz from T-Rextacy seems a much nicer person than Marc Bolan became). |
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006 Location: Washington Hgts Status: Offline Points: 10094 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 12:47 |
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I think seeing a tribute band live would be something interesting
however I will NEVER understand the point of a tribute band doing a recorded album |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 13:04 |
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This issue has worried me a lot. I know it's great to go and see The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway for those of us who never had the chance, But are this guys who dedicate their whole life to act what others created real artists or just copýcats? I know they must be skilled in an instrument to do so, but it’s an act only, not even sure if it’s really a tribute to the original band, because a tribute implies to create something to honor somebody, not to just copy. But it’s fun and they found a way of living, but my problem is really more with Tribute albums by weoll known artists. A few years ago, labels like Magna Carta, took musicians from their rooster and made tributes to everybody, some were good, some were bad but most were just an excuse to gain money with what others did. But this created a boom, everybody wanted make a tribute, it's cheap, you need to create nothing and you have a moderate success guarateed.
I can compare two albums, one called “The Fox Lies Down” (Purple Pyramid) which was horrendous, most of the musicians (some very talented) just played the exact same version Genesis did, others were embarrassing like John Wetton singing in the most perfect Elmer Fudd style “Your Own Special Way”. That was not a tribute, the artists did very little to create something new using what was already created. On the other hand a group of lesser known artists released “The River of Constant Changes”…Wow, that was a tribute, most of the bands were not British or even English speakers, but all of them made their best effort to create something new, they added a lot of them to what already existed and you got a brand new work that was worth buying. Bands like Decode, Germinale, The Acient Veil, Some of this artists had success with their own stuff others not, but they tried, unlike the Magna Carta artists who made tributes to Genesis,Yes, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Rush, ELP, etc, and even a compilation of their best tribute songs, this was more a cheap way to earn money instead of real tributes. Most of the Magna Carta artists should have been working in their own projects instead of making these tributes. Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 24 2008 at 13:09 |
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 13:13 |
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On the subject of the Magna Carta tribute albums, I agree with Ivan that there is no point whatsoever in having artists record note-perfect copies of the originals - it would be like getting Picasso to paint an identical copy of the Mona Lisa. Some of those albums are quite good though, like the ELP tribute, in which the artists involved reinterpret the tracks instead of just reproducing them. Not that it is always successful - LaBrie singing "Tarkus" is not for the faint-hearted!
 - but some of the versions, like for instance "Toccata", are very good indeed.
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 13:18 |
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I look at The Musical Box more as rock theater than I do a tribute band. While they try and recreate the Geneisis shows as meticulously as possible the music comes from he albums not the live recordings so it is not an actual recreation of the live show. In this day and age they can pull it off pretty much flawlessly night after night (except human error) something Genesis could not do due to the technology of the times. They also took the time and responsibility to be registered by Geneisis that gave them access to things that make them even more complete. I found it pretty enjoyable and wish they would come back to the West Coast of US again. (They have only been here once). On the other hand if it just to see a band playing music of Yes, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin or whatever I am not interested. I find the people that attend these things for the most part don't want to hear new progressive music and are pretty much stuck in this time period. I guess it has some value if you have never heard this music live but for me no thanks.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 13:22 |
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Yes Raff, they did a good job with Encore, Legends & Paradox, they rescued musicians as Glenn Hugues, Mark Bonilla and Jerry Goodman who made a great job. Good album, I rated it with 4 stars because it's the best tribute album by Magna Carta.
But wouldn't it be better to join all this talented musicians as:
......And make something original in the vein of "The Greatest Show on Earth" ? http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2416 ?
They had enough performing and compositional talent in that lineup to create something amazing.
Iván
BTW: Jordan Ruddess really made a great performance in Karn Evil 9, sounded like a Wakeman inspired musician playing Emerson's stuff, impressive. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 24 2008 at 13:26 |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 13:37 |
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^ You should check out his latest one Ivan the Road Home. It is a tribute album with one Rudess song on it. Great versions of Dance on a Volcano, Tarkus and Just the Same among others. I saw Jordan perform with Rod Morgenstein last year and this guy is the real deal.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2696 |
Posted: February 24 2008 at 13:37 |
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Some interesting points here in an interesting and relevant debate.
From a fans point of view, being able to see something that for what ever reason I missed the 'first time around' is great, and while yes, it is not the original artists, a good percentage of the time you do have good, talented artists up on stage. Of course there are some shamefully amateur cringe-bags out there in 'tribute world' but a prog tribute is less likely to be really bad because they are playing to a limited audience compared to say an Abba tribute or something and really want to do serious justice to the music they love!
Usually a band like this is a relatively cheap night out, with some good tracks that you know and a few mates and a laugh!
From a musicians point of view it's double edged sword, who in their right mind would pay £15 + travel+food/beer to see Pallas (for example, don't go start making this a 'don't dis Pallas thread!) when you can go to your local and see a Floyd set with you mates for a fiver? It makes it harder for original acts to get a crowd, it makes it harder and harder to get an audience to tolerate unknown music , and it makes it really important when an original prog band you know are playing to get off your bums and go see them, (and take a mate along!) how is a young band supposed to get a following if their local pubs and clubs only book tributes?
The other edge of the sword is of course a side effect of the damage done by illegal file-sharing etc etc, if bands get less and less income from their original recordings they need to make up the short fall in revenue, and if they can get a gig playing someone else's tunes then they jolly well have to take it.
But in the main I think a good tribute can be a good laugh, and going to see any live music is better than a night in with your 'puter for company!
 Edited by prog-chick - February 24 2008 at 13:39 |
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Tribute Bands; A Good or A Bad Thing?
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Blacksword wrote:
