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Chris H 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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 Topic: Ratings
Posted: December 19 2006 at 21:13 |
Hey there. I don't know if anybody else feels the same way I do, so i guess that's why I'm asking this. Am I the only one that feels that many people's ratings are influenced by other member's ratings? I mean please people, rate the album how YOU feel, not how good everybody else thinks it is. Has anyone ever looked at the reviews for "Dark Side Of The Moon", "Close To The Edge" or "Selling England By The Pound"? Hundreds of people give out five star ratings like candy, but either completely side-step reviewing the album as a whole or even forget to mention anythnig positive.
And also, just because you think an album isn't great, don't automatically rate it one star. I'm sure you can find something positive about some not-so-hot-to-trot albums.
Please post your comments or opinions because I really think we need to make these ratings a little more accurate and a little less biased to fame. Thanks!
Edited by Zappa88 - December 19 2006 at 21:15
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65616
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Posted: December 19 2006 at 21:23 |
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An independant listening, thinking and rating process is so very important, so you raise a good issue. We have to assume that a reasonable amount of members are rating albums honestly - good or bad - separate and unconnected to what *anyone* else thinks. This isn't always the case but it should be encouraged.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: December 19 2006 at 22:07 |
 Much like a credulous conspiracy theorist, you are jumping to unfounded conclusions.
 As in science, the simplest explanation is the most likely:
In the world of progressive rock, the albums you listed are simply very, very popular.
They will naturally get top marks from many people. (They are quite good, and all examples of the highest standards of this genre as well, in my considered opinion.)
This site itself is also quite popular, and it goes worldwide -- it's a big planet out there, with lots of people who happily own copies of those albums on it. How do you think, for example, the Lord of the Rings trilogy would rate, overall, on a fantasy fan site?
I am sure the vast majority of people (at least the grownups) offer their OWN opinion and rating. "Hundreds of people" don't "give out five star ratings like candy" -- one person at a time, sitting alone, reviews an album. There is no conspiracy, nor are prog listeners, as a whole, a bunch of easily-led little lemmings or sheep. 
We know what we like, we like what we know, and what we like tends to be outside the musical mainstream. If we were merely knee-jerk followers of fashion, we'd be into Mariah Carey, Michael Jackson or (God forbid!) even Dream Theater, or some-such pop pablum. 
Edited by Peter Rideout - December 19 2006 at 22:08
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 00:47 |
 Peter Rideout wrote:
.... or (God forbid!) even Dream Theater, or some-such pop pablum. |
Ok, anyway, I agree with the rest. Those ratings are well deserved. I've heard those albums a lot of times and finally agreed (believe me , the two first times I heard SEBTP I hated it, now Genesis is among my top)... they were the founders, first thing going for them: second, please, it's just difficult to deny those are true MARVELS of prog rock... but a lot of unknown gems are there to be found! Green carnation is one I just found. I think there could be some "reviewers" that just see the overall rating and go: "yeah, then a 5"... but those I'm sure are FEW and stupid.... I think is insulting to people's intelligence to assume we write reviews and just follow like little sheep what other people think. I'm the first one that HATES whatever is over-idolized (exception: DT... but even DT is loved HERE IN PA, in the rest of the world, who the f**k are those people are going to ask me, so...).
I think that kind of issues will be taken care by the admins. in the review reporting thread... It's INCREDIBLY EASY to be certain which reviews are just COPY-PASTE and which ones aren't.
Edited by The T - December 20 2006 at 00:47
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 00:51 |
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because Peter eats babies, thats why, because Peter Rideout said so
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 00:55 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
because Peter eats babies, thats why, because Peter Rideout said so |
Oh Lord, now I know....
Run Portnoy, run
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 01:10 |
Before writting areview (I never rate without a review) i'm sure to own the album for a period no shorter than a week and don't read a single review until my own one is finished.
Iván
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Witchwoodhermit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 871
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 01:22 |
It's a good question. For me this site has been an eye opener. My point of reference comes from my unmoveable dislike of Jethro Tulls Passion Play. From my first listen to my last I find little merit in this album. For years my thoughts and views were substansiated by the rock encyclopedias and reviews I've read over the years.
When I joined Prog Archives and started to read the reviews of Passion Play...I couldn't believe my eyes. Not only is this album praised, but loved. Naturally, I returned to the album, based on reviews from "here" and gave it a few more spins. Result.
I don't like Passion Play. I'll spare my rant as I've done it before.
The bottom line and answer to your question is, I enjoy praise for albums I've never heard praise for before. A fresh angle will always inspire. Ultimately however, it's your own tastes that make the call.
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29490
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 03:09 |
I only give honest ratings.For me CTTE,TAAB,Foxtrot and WYWH are five star albums.The fact that other people agree with me is purely incidental.I'm prepared to go against the grain and have given DSOTM and In A Glass House only 3 stars despite the general acceptance of these being masterpeices.I would hope others are honest in their appraisal and appreciation of any album regardless of its reputation.
Where I can find fault in reviews is when you get an initial statement about such and such an album being a masterpiece but no justification of that in the subsequent comments.That gets my back up even though the opinion itself is an honest one.
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 09:02 |
bah, another one that by requesting honesty, doesn't realize there are honest reviewers out there. at least that's my feeling, such a thing being adressed to me. 
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 13:31 |
The T wrote:
Peter Rideout wrote:
.... or (God forbid!) even Dream Theater, or some-such pop pablum. |
Why always the cheap attack against DT? Why?  
Ok, anyway, I agree with the rest. Those ratings are well deserved. I've heard those albums a lot of times and finally agreed (believe me , the two first times I heard SEBTP I hated it, now Genesis is among my top)... they were the founders, first thing going for them: second, please, it's just difficult to deny those are true MARVELS of prog rock... but a lot of unknown gems are there to be found! Green carnation is one I just found. I think there could be some "reviewers" that just see the overall rating and go: "yeah, then a 5"... but those I'm sure are FEW and stupid.... I think is insulting to people's intelligence to assume we write reviews and just follow like little sheep what other people think. I'm the first one that HATES whatever is over-idolized (exception: DT... but even DT is loved HERE IN PA, in the rest of the world, who the f**k are those people are going to ask me, so...).
I think that kind of issues will be taken care by the admins. in the review reporting thread... It's INCREDIBLY EASY to be certain which reviews are just COPY-PASTE and which ones aren't.
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Just my usual tired, teasing little joke at the expense of PM/DT -- I don't really mean it, nor do I think of DT as "pop pablum." (Perhaps I should have listed Milli Vannilli or Wham! instead, but who would I offend with those?)
(I also wanted to lighten the tone of an otherwise pretty serious, even self-righteously indignant post.)
I may not care for Prog Metal and bands like DT, but I DO understand and accept why they're here -- why, if I were thirty years younger, and not nearly as intelligent as I am, plus a crack-addicted, long-haired lobotomised layabout lout and satanist, I might even become a fan of... Whoops! There I go again!
 Teasing is a sign of affection, you know....
BTW, thanks for reading & supporting the rest of my post, The Tea -- all the best to you!
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 17:22 |
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Hmm you were trying to lighten the tone of a self-righteously indignant post were you? Well if you ask me the tone would be much lighter if you did not attack on my opinions Mr. Rideout.
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 17:24 |
Zappa88 wrote:
Hmm you were trying to lighten the tone of a self-righteously indignant post were you? Well if you ask me the tone would be much lighter if you did not attack on my opinions Mr. Rideout. |
He's not attacking your opinions. Just poking fun at them. If you saw him you would see the twinkle in his eye and hear the sarcasm in his voice. Or something like that.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 18:26 |
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I like attacks on persons opinions, that's the easiest route to humour.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 18:28 |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 18:44 |
Zappa88 wrote:
Hmm you were trying to lighten the tone of a self-righteously indignant post were you? Well if you ask me the tone would be much lighter if you did not attack on my opinions Mr. Rideout. |
I see no attack on your opinions, or is disagreement an attack in your eyes?
If you offer an opinion on a forum you should expect to see it dissected, otherwise why post?
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 19:21 |
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Jesus Gabriel
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 20:19 |
Henry: "You're a pisser. You're really funny. You're really funny."
Tommy: "Uh-huh. What do you mean, I'm funny?"
Henry: "It's funny, you know, you're... It's a good story. It's funny. You're a funny guy."
Tommy: "What do you mean? You mean, the way I talk?"
Henry: "It's just, you know, you're-- you're just funny. It's-- you're fun-- You know, the way you tell the story and everything."
Tommy: "Funny how? I mean, what's funny about it?"
Anthony Stabile (Frank Adonis): "Tommy, no, you got it all wrong. Hey..."
Tommy: "Ho-ho, Anthony, he's a big boy, He knows what he said? What'd you say?"
Anthony: "You're right."
Tommy: "Funny how?"
Henry: "W-- it's..."
Tommy: "What?"
Henry: "Just, you know, you're funny. That's all."
Tommy: "You mean, let me understand this, 'cause, I don't-- You know, maybe it's me, I'm a little bleeped up, maybe. But I'm funny how? I mean, funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to bleeping amuse you? What do you mean, funny? funny how? How am I funny?"
Henry: "I-- No-- Just, you know, how you tell the story. What?"
Tommy: "No, no, I don't know, you said it. How do I know? You said I'm funny. How the bleep am I funny? What the bleep is so funny about me? Tell me, tell me what's funny."
Henry: "Get the bleep out of here. Tommy."
Tommy: "You motherbleeper, I almost had him. You stuttering prick, here. Frankie, was he shaking? I wonder about you sometimes, Henry. You may fold under questioning."
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 20:22 |
Uhh well that was relevant?
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 20:42 |
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man some sense of humour, for christ sakes!!!
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ratings
.. many people will never get used to it (or the obsessive spelling check
)..