Drugs

A most valid point, and well made, Barbs.

I agree that we Collabs should indeed be careful about what we "promote" here, especially given the increasingly younger average age of our members.

I have made (thinly) veiled pro-pot (and alcohol -- a very dangerous drug!) references in the past in some of my reviews, and your post has given me pause for thought.

(Still, I wish that this was a grownup site, and that those who read our stuff could be assumed to be adults with minds of their own....)

Yet there's the whole freedom of expression/choice thing. (Perhaps death metal, with its focus on the occult, death, suicide, murder, pain, etc, shouldn't be discussed/promoted here either?) A complicated issue! (Protecting the "innocent" VS freedom of speech, and keeping the site "interesting" to adults.)

Then there's religion (the "opiate of the masses," as ol' K.M. would say): many die for it, yet several people arguably "push" it here....

Can o' worms, really, I think... careful with that censor's knife, Eugene!

While I really agree with the concerns addressed here, and I have posted in favor of light drugs , alcohol and free sex  (between consenting persons), I am very touched by this thread!

I agree that this site cannot advocate this kind of lifestyle (however fun it can be: epicurianism is the only way to be happy in this world) but it should not also condemn/condone (or condom) it either.
 
 I found your introductory comments both amusing and paradoxical.

We should consider a few things, here:

1. There are a lot of adults who are plainly satisfied and live  accomplished and blooming lives while toking and partying and still manage to have a balanced private and professional life. I am a living proof and I dare say I am not the only one. Long Live Epicurianism!

While I do not think that you are the only one either, I do understand why we use generalities when making a comment/statement. The term 'a lot'  suggests a large percentage of the population, for which I would need to see some kind of authorative statistical information, before I would entertain the thought that you are correct about this.

2. Yes , there are a few yougster who have not attained the age of reason yet (some are late bloomers too) , so what is an average age of reason: your guess is as good as mine. We certainly would not want to entice those youngsters to a drug habits they are not ready to control!

If, the percentage of teens visiting this site was say 30%, would that be enough young people to be a concern to you, or is it more an issue of opposing social views. Some more 'enlightened  types, for example, think that the age of consent should be lowered quite considerably.

But hiding the fact that prog came out of Psychadelia would be lying to them too!

Same as exaggerating the importance of it .

 Enlightenment (beit religious or musical or even drug-induced) is part of developping or progressing music. If they are aware of the dangers..... But I oppose the will to regulate this, on the basis that a few kids are surfing on the Archives. Anyway , most kids do not come on site such as ours until they are 15 or older.

3. I really became aware of this recently, through this Forum: They are many younger progheads on this forum who are geeks , nerds (and proud of it) , not sexually active because they are quaint.....and women flee them .

Perhaps you could post a section on how to successfully seduce a woman.

They do not live an enriched life,(and IMHO are loosers) and maybe they should be taking a toke , having a brew and fornicating once in a while in other words getting themselves a life. The whole thing relies on moderation and having fun with a few light substances is healthy for the mind as long as moderation is mother of prevention.

Has it ever occurred to you that people can and do live happy, contented, fulfilled and almost certainly more productive lives, without the need for any kind of chemical dependancy, illict substance or act.

4. Some of these geeks have been guilty of revisionism , remodelling the reality to fit their needs or wants, Some having been suggesting that intelligent lyrics such as Floyd , Yes were not written under influence.  Bending historical facts to fit a theory is banned about the Holocaust , punishable by law and this is called revisionism. While we are not dealing with such an important subject as the Shoah (hope I spelled that correctly) , this prog rock revisionism sucks and is downright wrong!

IMO, mentioning the Holocaust in this topic thread is demeaning to the importance of it. 

My temporary conclusion is that so far , the PA have not advocated or condemned any kind of lifestyle , just members suggesting things. I am happy this debate resurfaces regularly because it does need to reppear regularly to see if no major excesses are committed by members (conservateurs are more dangerous to freedom than the Laissez-faire liberalists) and correct the direction if needed.

But so far , on the PA , nothing needed correction on that!

Peace!

Sean Trane wrote: We should consider a few things, here: 1. There are a lot of adults who are plainly satisfied and live  accomplished and blooming lives while toking and partying and still manage to have a balanced private and professional life. I am a living proof and I dare say I am not the only one. Long Live Epicurianism! While I do not think that you are the only one either, I do understand why we use generalities when making a comment/statement. The term 'a lot'  suggests a large percentage of the population, for which I would need to see some kind of authorative statistical information, before I would entertain the thought that you are correct about this. Well for adults ranging between 35 to 60 , my guess is that over 80 % of us smoked , drank and/or fornicated while we were students. Some studies in the 70's implied over 60% did , but there are always the ones not saying they did! Not that we all get smashed nowadays , hardly ! I was always one to restrain the partying to a given time and certainly separate from driving time and professional time. 2. Yes , there are a few youngster who have not attained the age of reason yet (some are late bloomers too) , so what is an average age of reason: your guess is as good as mine. We certainly would not want to entice those youngsters to a drug habits they are not ready to control! If, the percentage of teens visiting this site was say 30%, would that be enough young people to be a concern to you, or is it more an issue of opposing social views. Some more 'enlightened  types, for example, think that the age of consent should be lowered quite considerably. Yes , I agree that teenagers are the bulk of visitors (and probably amount to more than 30% of the visits) . Agent of consent , voting , drinking and driving are probably too low for the maturity of most teenagers, one of my greatest concern is that you can drice in Canada from 16 but can drink from the age of 19.?!?!? But hiding the fact that prog came out of Psychadelia would be lying to them too! Same as exaggerating the importance of it . entirely true!  Enlightenment (beit religious or musical or even drug-induced) is part of developping or progressing music. If they are aware of the dangers..... But I oppose the will to regulate this, on the basis that a few kids are surfing on the Archives. Anyway , most kids do not come on site such as ours until they are 15 or older. 3. I really became aware of this recently, through this Forum: They are many younger progheads on this forum who are geeks , nerds (and proud of it) , not sexually active because they are quaint.....and women flee them . Perhaps you could post a section on how to successfully seduce a woman. I never said this was easy! But some seem to be content of being geeks , nerds and cocky about it! This is a very worrying trend: at least when we were young , we were having fun , not being content to lock ourselves in the bedroom and fondle the PC's KB, we went out , chase women and sometimes got lucky! So young , cocky but not virgins anymore! good reasons to be cocky! They do not live an enriched life,(and IMHO are loosers) and maybe they should be taking a toke , having a brew and fornicating once in a while in other words getting themselves a life. The whole thing relies on moderation and having fun with a few light substances is healthy for the mind as long as moderation is mother of prevention. Has it ever occurred to you that people can and do live happy, contented, fulfilled and almost certainly more productive lives, without the need for any kind of chemical dependancy, illict substance or act. Of course!!  I smoke up roughly twice a month, drink around two bottles of wine/week and can stop (and have done so) both anytime, but I spend around 95% of my time awake perfectly straight. And I enjoy every moment of it too! 4. Some of these geeks have been guilty of revisionism , remodelling the reality to fit their needs or wants, Some having been suggesting that intelligent lyrics such as Floyd , Yes were not written under influence.  Bending historical facts to fit a theory is banned about the Holocaust , punishable by law and this is called revisionism. While we are not dealing with such an important subject as the Shoah (hope I spelled that correctly) , this prog rock revisionism sucks and is downright wrong! IMO, mentioning the Holocaust in this topic thread is demeaning to the importance of it.  Maybe so, but I needed an example of revisionism and I say that we are not dealing with such an important subject   My temporary conclusion is that so far , the PA have not advocated or condemned any kind of lifestyle , just members suggesting things. I am happy this debate resurfaces regularly because it does need to reppear regularly to see if no major excesses are committed by members (conservateurs are more dangerous to freedom than the Laissez-faire liberalists) and correct the direction if needed. But so far , on the PA , nothing needed correction on that! Peace!

Now I never meant to say that and I was not aiming at you! Please be assured that I want to be careful also of what goes on this site. And I do say that I am happy the debate resurfaces from time to time.

But if a porno site is visited by 70% under-aged teenagers , should the porno site change its content, strictly on the base that they are the majority of the visitors? Teenagers have way too much time on their hands and spend way too much time on the web. So they are the majority of visitors on most sites (especially music sites) and are surrepresented (as opposed to third age surfers). This site is made for the most bu adults , and the vast majority of collabs are adults but we are all careful as to include everybody and for the most part observes the rules and guidelines dictated by the site. I really see no point to intervene yet! Your fear for your kids reading on this site is understandable (you are lucky enough to have kids so young that get interested in prog) but if they go on almost any adult music forum, sex and drugs and R'nr are the main preoccupation of the participants. Even Britney cannot avoid it for too long. she lied about everything!

regards

Trotsky wrote: barbs wrote: If you have a child who is 14 or 15, girl or boy and they are interested in music and using this site to broaden their understanding, or maybe just wanting to comm with someone, is it really Ok that adults, because we are so LIBERATED and FREE to do whatever we want, PROMOTE how good it is to take certain substances that are illegal, toxic and clincially proven to be damaging to the health of young people.  Just a small point on this one barbs, as a parent of three kids aged 8 and below, I understand where you're coming from, but it's our duty to educate our kids as much as we can, way before they learn about it from the internet (or anywhere else for that matter) ...

The thing about that is you need to educate your children about it yourself, there will always be people advocating things you dont want your children participating in. Its up to you to raise your child, and no matter what you do there will always be movies, videogames, songs, heck even idiots wearing a shirt with a pot leaf on it. Its your responsibility to educate your children as best you can (like Trotsky said) before they get any other exposure to it. So when they hit 14-15 go to highschool and are (wether you like it or not) exposed to it, they can make an informed decision.

I smoked Pot for the first time at 13 years old, and though there have been many times where it has become dangerously close to addiction ( at 14 and then again at 17) ive stopped almost entirely now (except occaisonally at social functions where its offered, but ive stopped buying it and doing it alone. Once a month if its a busy month id say). I didnt start because tv or internet said it was fine, but becuase it was something I had never experianced. Its pretty much unavoidable that a person will try it eventually, the most you can do is make sure the child understands what it is.

Don't quite know what brought this on, although I know hdfisch has brought it up in the past ... my two cents, yes there are kids going through here, and yes PA should not be seen to be promoting drug culture ...

but sometimes discussion of it is unavoidable ... and I don't know where the censorship should begin (or how necessary it is) ... I just did 7 Hawkwind reviews ... and although Reefer Madness and LSD weren't among the songs covered, the topic was never far away ... I just mentioned "stoner jams" a lot ... is that offensive? ... should that be removed?

barbs wrote: If you have a child who is 14 or 15, girl or boy and they are interested in music and using this site to broaden their understanding, or maybe just wanting to comm with someone, is it really Ok that adults, because we are so LIBERATED and FREE to do whatever we want, PROMOTE how good it is to take certain substances that are illegal, toxic and clincially proven to be damaging to the health of young people.

Just a small point on this one barbs, as a parent of three kids aged 8 and below, I understand where you're coming from, but it's our duty to educate our kids as much as we can, way before they learn about it from the internet (or anywhere else for that matter) ...