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In defense of Works

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Nergdnur Ddot View Drop Down
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    Posted: Yesterday at 08:39
I genuinely think Piano Concerto No. 1 and Pirates are amazing songs. I don't get all the hate for this album. Is it because of the songs in-between?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 09:50
ELP tend to be knocked by the prog purists - I've got used to it over the decades.  I was really excited when this album came out (I assume you are talking about Vol. 1) and agree with your selection.  I found Lake's side the weakest but Palmer's The Enemy God and the reworking of Tank are outstanding and sounded great live.  (So does 'Pirates').  My only moan is that they did not tour the UK when it came out and I had to wait many years until I saw them live. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:12
For my money it's typical of most double albums of the decade. About 80% is great but that other 20% could be left off. Piano Concerto No 1 and Pirates are solid. Do I need a whole side of Lake/Sinfield songs (no!) and there are at least 2 tracks on Carl Palmer's side that are self indulgent nonsense. Fanfare For The Common Man could have been left off the album altogether (apparently Keith Emerson was of that opinion as it didn't really fit the orchestral remit but he was overruled by Atlantic records) although admittedly I love it. Works Vol's 1 and 2 could have been organised a little better maybe? I rate it about 3 stars out of 5 but even the best version is not as good as Trilogy or BSS imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:37
Both volumes are worth having if you dig ELP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Hosydi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:58
It was evident that ELP had lost its inventiveness after Brain Salad Surgery and a tiring tour. They chose to have a double LP with each member contributing a side and the last side being a collaborative effort, instead of a one-disc album where they perform as a group. And the result of such a decision is probably the most terrible double-LP album in the history of the genre. Only Lake's material has some lovely moments as well as parts with him on the vocals on Pirates.

Love Beach, despite its awful sleeve design, is a masterpiece album in comparison with Works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote meAsoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 44 minutes ago at 20:36
I don't hate whoever made Emerson, Lake & Palmer make "Love Beach" due to contractual obligations, because if he hadn't, we would have had "Works Vol. 2" as the last ELP album. For me, "Love Beach" is a far better album than "Works Vol. 1" despite its ugly album cover because, in my opinion, "Love Beach" could be seen as a worthy late 70s compromise between beautiful progressive pop and first-class prog rock. On the other side, "Works Vol. 1" is a megalomaniacal double LP that failed in its basic idea of the solo escapades of the three. It only showcases a fact that Keith Emerson never reached the class of the finest classical composers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 47 minutes ago at 23:33
Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

It was evident that ELP had lost its inventiveness after Brain Salad Surgery and a tiring tour. They chose to have a double LP with each member contributing a side and the last side being a collaborative effort, instead of a one-disc album where they perform as a group. And the result of such a decision is probably the most terrible double-LP album in the history of the genre. Only Lake's material has some lovely moments as well as parts with him on the vocals on Pirates.

Love Beach, despite its awful sleeve design, is a masterpiece album in comparison with Works.

There was a 3 year gap between BSS and Works so I don't think the World Tour of 1973/74 had much to do with it. They wanted to release 3 solo albums but the record company wouldn't allow it so they had to compromise. Carl Palmer had the most interesting material and along with his excellent Percussion concerto (composed by Joseph Horowitz) could have put out a strong legit solo album. Lake had a had a hit with his Xmas record and had some recognition as a solo artist but he wasn't prolific as far as writing songs go so a full album would have been tricky. Emerson was very much tied to the band but eventually put out some excellent solo albums in the 80's. One of the good things that came out of Works (more specifically the tour) was the link up with orchestral conductor Godfrey Salmon. Salmon helped with the arrangements of Inferno and Nighthawks. For Works Emerson had used John Mayer who was the leader of the London Philharmonic and who had also orchestrated the 1972 track Abaddons Bolero. He did a fine job imo.

Works had a reason for existing and made some sense at least. Love Beach was poorly conceived and none of the excitement or inspiration that made the band what it was was there anymore. It's hard to take an album that includes A Taste Of My Love seriously. If it was meant ironically then we could have laughed but actually it was meant to be serious. Works is at least listenable and Fanfare For The Common Man was and still is a very unique sounding piece of music. That carried the last vestige of magic that once surrounded the band. Ultimately they were pretty much done by 1974 in terms of creative ideas and should have stopped then (yes I made this point on the other thread and it's still true).


Edited by richardh - 12 hours 46 minutes ago at 23:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 35 minutes ago at 23:45
Originally posted by meAsoi meAsoi wrote:

I don't hate whoever made Emerson, Lake & Palmer make "Love Beach" due to contractual obligations, because if he hadn't, we would have had "Works Vol. 2" as the last ELP album. For me, "Love Beach" is a far better album than "Works Vol. 1" despite its ugly album cover because, in my opinion, "Love Beach" could be seen as a worthy late 70s compromise between beautiful progressive pop and first-class prog rock. On the other side, "Works Vol. 1" is a megalomaniacal double LP that failed in its basic idea of the solo escapades of the three. It only showcases a fact that Keith Emerson never reached the class of the finest classical composers.

Works Vol 2 would have been the natural end of the line. It contained remnants of the Works and BSS sessions so didn't hold together at all. Howerver it's a weird eclectric mix of music and is quite fun in a way and represented the goofy side of the band that people hate although I don't hate it. Re Love Beach, ''Compromise'' in music is rarely a good thing. Emerson was admittedly still writing symhonically and carried that through with his much better solo albums of the early 80's but it was still lacking the basic power of ELP. To this 16 year old at the time it just showed the band was nothing anymore and gave the music critics all the ammunition they needed to bury the band. I absolutely hate it for that. Their reputation and legacy took a massive hit. One of the most important bands in rock history reduced to half baked 'no balls' commercialism. ELP were never that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 20 minutes ago at 01:00
Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

ELP tend to be knocked by the prog purists - I've got used to it over the decades.  I was really excited when this album came out (I assume you are talking about Vol. 1) and agree with your selection.  I found Lake's side the weakest but Palmer's The Enemy God and the reworking of Tank are outstanding and sounded great live.  (So does 'Pirates').  
...
 

Hi, 

All in all, I do not remember any "prog purists" in 1977 ... so I presume that those so named folks are folks that heard ELP some 10 to 20 years later, and by that time, they (likely) could not handle the differences and variety, as their tastes (fans) had already turned, and in the 1990's it was fashionable to start the trashing of a lot of the bands in the 1970's that ended up giving the name a spin, as "progressive".

I would take a closer look at the folks that state such things, as I would imagine that they are mentioning some younger and current "fans", who prefer something else, that is not progressive, and leans towards formats and numbers, than it ever did as the music of a generation that actually MEANT SOMETHING to many folks. I agree that the whole orchestra thing was too much, but I'm not sure I would not want to try it and give it a go, something that even here we don't appreciate much ... even DT's album is not appreciated for the fantastic work they were able to put together with an orchestra, although I would like a bit less thrashing, and more orchestration, but that's another story.

For me, and many "fans" at the time, folks like ELP were vital and important. They were rewriting the history of pop music, and showing themselves very capable composers of a lot of great music, with one important side of things here ... we look at it all as "songs" not music, and that means that anyone can trash things, and not respect it for the music that was created. We don't talk of Mozart and Beethoven as songs, and we will not do that in 50 more years with ELP, either! And maybe, just maybe, a lot of those "prog purists" will all be enchanted with something else ... that is an idea, not a reality. ELP were a "reality" ... not an idea like so many things these days, with pulp-like-fiction for ideas and concepts! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 57 minutes ago at 03:23
I love Works. I agree about Piano Concerto and Pirates, but also the cover of Fanfare For The Common Man is great. 2 sides over 4 are 5 stars for me. Greg's side isn't that bad even if it doesn't stand up, but C'est la Vie is a great song. 

Palmer's side is the weakest, IMO.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 20 minutes ago at 05:00
Works Vol I is my second most listened-to ELP album.  I adore Lake's side.  Hallowed Be Thy Name may be my favorite ELP song. C'est la Vie is divine.

 I get why folks don't dig Works.  I agree with Octopus-4.  Palmer's side is the weakest.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 13 minutes ago at 05:07
I enjoy Carl Palmer's side roping in Joe Walsh for LA Nights and a great Buddy Rich inspired work out for Food For Your Soul. I also like The Enemy God (Prokoviev is the best!) and the version of Tank with more Buddy Rich inspired madness. The 2 short tracks are pretty bad though and at least can easily be skipped. One interesting fact about the album is that it was played on all three BBC radio stations at the time (Radio 1 -pop/rock, Radio 2 - easy listening and Radio 3 - classical). That must be a very rare thing in itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 13 minutes ago at 05:07
Works Vol. 1 has always been my favourite ELP album, although my opinion doesn't amount to much when I highly-rate the much-maligned Love Beach album too. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 7 minutes ago at 05:13
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I enjoy Carl Palmer's side roping in Joe Walsh for LA Nights and a great Buddy Rich inspired work out for Food For Your Soul. I also like The Enemy God (Prokoviev is the best!) and the version of Tank with more Buddy Rich inspired madness. The 2 short tracks are pretty bad though and at least can easily be skipped. One interesting fact about the album is that it was played on all three BBC radio stations at the time (Radio 1 -pop/rock, Radio 2 - easy listening and Radio 3 - classical). That must be a very rare thing in itself.

I enjoy Carl Palmer's side too.  I agree with your mini-review. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 55 minutes ago at 05:25
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Works Vol. 1 has always been my favourite ELP album, although my opinion doesn't amount to much when I highly-rate the much-maligned Love Beach album too. Smile

Agreed - the post-modern irony of the cover of 'Love Beach' is also lost on most prog fans.  Throbbing Gristle did something similar with '20 Jazz Funk Greats' atop Beachy Head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Octopus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 52 minutes ago at 05:28
I have always been a big fan of both Works albums. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 29 minutes ago at 05:51
Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Works Vol. 1 has always been my favourite ELP album, although my opinion doesn't amount to much when I highly-rate the much-maligned Love Beach album too. Smile

Agreed - the post-modern irony of the cover of 'Love Beach' is also lost on most prog fans.  Throbbing Gristle did something similar with '20 Jazz Funk Greats' atop Beachy Head.

I was hugely disappointed when I heard Throbbing Gristle's 20 Jazz Funk Greats for the first time recently, because I really was expecting to hear some Jazz Funk Greats, but instead, it turned out to be an unlistenable Avant Prog album. Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 25 minutes ago at 05:55
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 28 minutes ago at 07:52
As a big ELP fan, I'm NOT a big fan of these albums.

I love Pirates, Fanfare and C'est la Vie from the first album but that's about it. The Piano Concerto is nice but just feels out of place. I love Lake's ballads but they are not very inspired aside from the one I mentioned, although they are still listenable. Palmer is just not a composer, giving him one side of an album was never going to end well, although it's better than Nick Mason's side on Ummagumma at least. The band side, unsurprisingly, is great. 

Vol 2 is just leftovers mostly and show a different side of the band but the songs are just not that good. And I like a lot some of the songs from previous albums in a similar vein that some people seem to dislike like Jeremy Bender, The Sheriff, etc. 

They did signal the beginning of the end for ELP, it would have been better for them to release solo albums and then do a proper album together instead of this half-arsed mix. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 32 minutes ago at 11:48
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I love Works. I agree about Piano Concerto and Pirates, but also the cover of Fanfare For The Common Man is great. 2 sides over 4 are 5 stars for me. Greg's side isn't that bad even if it doesn't stand up, but C'est la Vie is a great song. 
...

Hi,

That concerto is not the only one ... TARKUS, is, a concerto, and you only need to hear it in Rachel Flower's hands to get it. We forget that if you were 20 years old and showed a professor your "composition" (at the time) things like Tarkus would get slapped raw and that pretty much shows why some great keyboard players gave up graduate school to play in a band ... they could not do what they really wanted to do. By the time of WORKS, I think that there was much more appreciation for what a Concerto was, and Keith creating that piece is a testament, about what he thought was unfair in the educational system, and TARKUS had to be presented in a style that highlighted the keyboards, instead of the concerto it was. That was not an "accident" ... it was how things were appreciated in those days ... you kinda had to blow it all out with all the incendiary elements at your disposal. And pretty much all major keyboard players did it, and did it well ... with RW being the only one, to my knowledge, that has not quite gone back and done his works on solo piano, so he could show his work, which in my book is almost the same riffs on different keyboards!

WORKS is magnificent ... and stands out ... and it is a shame, that folks don't take a look at history and see what was available at the time in all kinds of lists ... and the appreciation for their work would be much more open and appreciated. Instead some folks think it is over rated stuff ... like the majority of the top 50 of last year were not overblown and not even close to the adventurous work by ELP in the series WORKS. 

Please take a look at the history at the time, before making the comments ... it makes quite a difference.
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