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Dream Theater - Parasomnia: released!
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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^At AP users can submit an overall rating and also individual ratings for production, musicianship, songwriting, composition, lyrics and cover art. Cool
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^ Mike I see your a Devin Townsend fan. What did you think back in the day with his early stuff? I mean how obnoxiously loud it was. First thing I noticed when listening to his music for the first time was the loud production. Now after playing it many times the issues I had with the production seemed to fade, I got used to it. But that's a subjective production right there. Some loved it, some didn't.
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Personally I think the album sounds great,it's an album where the various players are mixed as a whole, the music sounds all together and the vocals are to the fore. It all sounds tight ❤️
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Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

^ Mike I see your a Devin Townsend fan. What did you think back in the day with his early stuff? I mean how obnoxiously loud it was. First thing I noticed when listening to his music for the first time was the loud production. Now after playing it many times the issues I had with the production seemed to fade, I got used to it. But that's a subjective production right there. Some loved it, some didn't.

I do not mind "loud" productions. Sometimes it bothers me a little bit, like when I have listened to a more dynamic mix and then I'm putting on Blackwater Park, I do hear the difference of course. As far as DT goes, I don't often listen to SYL releases these days. Maybe I'll put on City tonight, we'll see!

I think that from a pure technical standpoint mixes should be as dynamic as possible, and the equipment you play them on should be able to compress them on demand, if necessary, which is relatively simple to do, but impossible the other way round. 
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^How do you compress on demand?
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Points: 21599 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2025 at 15:03
I'm not talking about digital formats like mp3, but about reducing (compressing) the dynamic range of a signal. Compressors are available as both analog and digital equipment. Car stereos typically use this to adjust the signal in relation to the noise (speed) in the car - they don't just increase the volume.



Edited by MikeEnRegalia - February 17 2025 at 15:03
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It feels a mix of their last two album with Portnoy on drums, I liked it so far - loved the previous albums too.
It still not as good as Distance Over time, but their best since Octavarium I guess (excluding DoT ofc)
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Points: 6457 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2025 at 13:02
Don't usually see a lot of love for DoT, I too think it's the finest Mangini album. I listened to Parasomnia about 15 times almost with nothing in between and now I need a break. It feels pretty excellent, but hard to say where it settles.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I'm not talking about digital formats like mp3, but about reducing (compressing) the dynamic range of a signal. Compressors are available as both analog and digital equipment. Car stereos typically use this to adjust the signal in relation to the noise (speed) in the car - they don't just increase the volume.


I would never spend money on equipment to compress my music, I don't think I've ever heard anyone doing this on purpose. And I spend a lot of time on audio gear forums....but hey, not my money!! LOL

As far as a studio doing this, that's a different thing than consumer audio.


Edited by Catcher10 - February 18 2025 at 17:28
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Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

IMO, Mike is a very skilled drummer and knows a lot of stuff. But he has settled into a place of basically just doing what he does with no attempt to maybe, possibly, sometimes, try and think of something just a little bit different than you've already done on 14 albums.

His las "amazing" drum album, IMO, was 'Awake'. 


Honestly, I'm just happy to have him back.  After listening to a few NoMeansNo albums, I've subconsciously focused on percussion more, and this album threw a hundreds tricks out there, making even the worst songs more inventive and powerful.  The biggest flaw was that, while everyone else did their parts well enough, they couldn't keep up with him this time like they did in Images and Words and Awake.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I'm not talking about digital formats like mp3, but about reducing (compressing) the dynamic range of a signal. Compressors are available as both analog and digital equipment. Car stereos typically use this to adjust the signal in relation to the noise (speed) in the car - they don't just increase the volume.


I would never spend money on equipment to compress my music, I don't think I've ever heard anyone doing this on purpose. And I spend a lot of time on audio gear forums....but hey, not my money!! LOL

As far as a studio doing this, that's a different thing than consumer audio.

It is routinely done for radio. Android TV sets also have an option for it. It's not called "compression" explicitly, but whenever you get an option to tweak the audio for quiet or loud environments, that refers to applying compression. 

Basically, when you are listening in a quiet environment (e.g., at home in your audiophile listening room) you want as little compression as possible (maximise dynamic range). When you're listening in a loud environment you want to apply compression because otherwise you won't hear anything but the loudest moments.
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I'm not talking about digital formats like mp3, but about reducing (compressing) the dynamic range of a signal. Compressors are available as both analog and digital equipment. Car stereos typically use this to adjust the signal in relation to the noise (speed) in the car - they don't just increase the volume.


I would never spend money on equipment to compress my music, I don't think I've ever heard anyone doing this on purpose. And I spend a lot of time on audio gear forums....but hey, not my money!! LOL

As far as a studio doing this, that's a different thing than consumer audio.

It is routinely done for radio. Android TV sets also have an option for it. It's not called "compression" explicitly, but whenever you get an option to tweak the audio for quiet or loud environments, that refers to applying compression. 

Basically, when you are listening in a quiet environment (e.g., at home in your audiophile listening room) you want as little compression as possible (maximise dynamic range). When you're listening in a loud environment you want to apply compression because otherwise you won't hear anything but the loudest moments.
I get what you are describing for radio and TV, that's a common thing.....but to my knowledge there is no stereo gear that does this on purpose or as an option, again for home consumer use. Only the CD does this on purpose...LOL
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^ The CD? It has a higher dynamic range than vinyl, so I'm not following ... 

Sure, high-end home consumer stereo gear is catered towards the audiophile listener, listening at high(ish) volume in a quiet environment. No compression needed in that use case, which takes me back to my initial point: Music mixes should be as dynamic as possible, because that's the only way to get an optimal listening experience everywhere. A dynamic mix can be compressed quite easily, but a compressed mix can not be "expanded" again.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ The CD? It has a higher dynamic range than vinyl, so I'm not following ... 

Sure, high-end home consumer stereo gear is catered towards the audiophile listener, listening at high(ish) volume in a quiet environment. No compression needed in that use case, which takes me back to my initial point: Music mixes should be as dynamic as possible, because that's the only way to get an optimal listening experience everywhere. A dynamic mix can be compressed quite easily, but a compressed mix can not be "expanded" again.
Yes the CD has about 90dB of dynamic range and the LP about 75dB, but that's not the point. Your talking about compression, brickwalling, and the CD is the king media type for brickwalled sound. CDs from the 90s were known to be compressed to hell and back, almost ZERO dynamics. And that means all channels (tracks) were mix/mastered at the same volume. A percussion triangle sounded the same as a snare hit, a violin had same volume as a guitar lick, the vocals were 100% in your face. That's compression, made famous by FM radio so as you moved the dial you would stop at the loudest station. 

A compressed mix yes it CAN BE corrected, by simply going back to the original multi track recording and remixing it so the remix/remastering engineer will set new volume levels for each track/channel. That's what remixing does. Steven Wilson has explained why in many cases he is remixing vs simply remastering some of the older recordings he has done.

The LP can also hold higher resolution, a wider frequency range than the CD, remember the CD is redbook and is limited to 20Hz to 20kHz. The LP has been cut with as low as 5Hz and as high as 80kHz, we all hear differently so discussing that part is meaningless.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ The CD? It has a higher dynamic range than vinyl, so I'm not following ... 

Sure, high-end home consumer stereo gear is catered towards the audiophile listener, listening at high(ish) volume in a quiet environment. No compression needed in that use case, which takes me back to my initial point: Music mixes should be as dynamic as possible, because that's the only way to get an optimal listening experience everywhere. A dynamic mix can be compressed quite easily, but a compressed mix can not be "expanded" again.
Yes the CD has about 90dB of dynamic range and the LP about 75dB, but that's not the point. Your talking about compression, brickwalling, and the CD is the king media type for brickwalled sound. CDs from the 90s were known to be compressed to hell and back, almost ZERO dynamics. And that means all channels (tracks) were mix/mastered at the same volume. A percussion triangle sounded the same as a snare hit, a violin had same volume as a guitar lick, the vocals were 100% in your face. That's compression, made famous by FM radio so as you moved the dial you would stop at the loudest station. 

The CD, as a medium, supports more dynamic mixes than vinyl. That's all I was saying. So while all you wrote there makes sense, it's kind of beside the point. Dream Theater could have decided to make a much more dynamic mix, but they did not, and it was not due to a limitation of the medium.

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

A compressed mix yes it CAN BE corrected, by simply going back to the original multi track recording and remixing it so the remix/remastering engineer will set new volume levels for each track/channel. That's what remixing does. Steven Wilson has explained why in many cases he is remixing vs simply remastering some of the older recordings he has done.

A compressed mix, as in a dynamic mix processed using compression, can NOT be made more dynamic again without a big loss of information (as in audible artifacts). Sure, if your definition of "correcting" includes going back to the original recording and creating an entirely new mix/master, then of course everything can be "corrected". Wink

A dynamic mix/master on the other hand can easily be made more compressed for the purposes of making it work better in loud environments. That's not the same as making all the individual instruments as loud as possible, as you described, so of course in order to do that one would also have to create a new mix/master.

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

The LP can also hold higher resolution, a wider frequency range than the CD, remember the CD is redbook and is limited to 20Hz to 20kHz. The LP has been cut with as low as 5Hz and as high as 80kHz, we all hear differently so discussing that part is meaningless.

Well, there aren't any humans who can hear above 20kHz, or if they are they've lost that ability as toddlers. And anything below 20Hz is not really audible as music, in that humans have a really hard time distinguishing frequencies. So for all practical intents and purposes, the redbook standard is good enough for any audiophile requirements based in reality, and CD/digital eliminates the wobble and other mechanical problems that come with the analog vinyl medium. And then there's also advanced digital standards like 24bit/96kHz, which are overkill for consumers and basically exist to impress the impressionable.
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