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Some time in the past...
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20361 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 02:32
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Art-rock was not removed but split in three: eclectic, crossover and heavy-prog. 
That's a weird way of looking at it. If Art-Rock wasn't removed, it would obviously still be here. Art-Rock was removed from PA. The bands and artists however, were kept and placed in some newly made up sub-genres instead.


I meant all the bands under "art-rock" were divided and tagged under the three genres mentioned above. 
So King Crimson, Rush, Van Der Graaf Generator and Gentle Giant weren't removed from the Progarchives along with Art-Rock? Good to know.

I wanted to keep Art Rock alive  in PA (especially so that all prog bands were known to me and the buddies as "Art Rock" back then >> I only became aware of "Prog" in the early 90's)

However, some contested this, and the excuse (somewhat valid) is that this "genre" had become a dumping ground and the sheer number of bands in there had become unmanageable.
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Points: 15473 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 06:30

A bit off-topic here, but when talking about being proud of some Progressive Rock as a progger, it's like somehow identify oneself with the genre and feeling proud on behalf of it. It's like some people can feel proud of belonging to a certain nation, and I can for instance feel proud of the Danish welfare state. 





Edited by David_D - January 21 2025 at 07:08
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Points: 820 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 06:59
There is a comprehensive site called art rock heaven that features most of the bands featured here at PA. I’m thinking the two go hand in hand for the most part. Most of Prog can be squeezed into many sub genres IMO. The term Art-Rock is certainly more inclusive. Prog purists (not me) know the difference I think, and I respect that.
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Points: 28981 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 16:47
Classical Rock (not to be confused with the more general ''Classic Rock'' moniker for just about everything in rock that came along around about 1968-1973), Techno Rock and Keyboard Rock were also terms I heard used when growing up. ELP were and still are the most held up example of a ''prog'' band and what the term means (ie it's not meant as a compliment). I think Art-Rock was a term that many bands of that era used to distance themselves from what they considered to be overly technical and bombastic bands such as ELP. However Art rock, although supposedly more cerebral, was arguably more pretentious (although ELP ironically also got lumbered with that criticism when they tried to be more 'arty' as on Works Volume One). I hope my cynical tone is coming through when it comes to this. Ultimately though ''it'' (arty progressive music) is about high level musicianship as far as I'm concerned. You need the tools to build something. Pop musicians only do what they do because they have no capability to do anything different usually being propped up by a producer and a great marketing budget. Ultimately we like to promote actual talent on this site and that includes Supertramp, Kate Bush, David Bowie and 10CC to name a few obvious ones who never were 'prog' at all.
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20361 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 04:17
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Classical Rock (not to be confused with the more general ''Classic Rock'' moniker for just about everything in rock that came along around about 1968-1973), Techno Rock and Keyboard Rock were also terms I heard used when growing up. ELP were and still are the most held up example of a ''prog'' band and what the term means (ie it's not meant as a compliment). 
I think Art-Rock was a term that many bands of that era used to distance themselves from what they considered to be overly technical and bombastic bands such as ELP. However Art rock, although supposedly more cerebral, was arguably more pretentious (although ELP ironically also got lumbered with that criticism when they tried to be more 'arty' as on Works Volume One). I hope my cynical tone is coming through when it comes to this. Ultimately though ''it'' (arty progressive music) is about high level musicianship as far as I'm concerned. You need the tools to build something. Pop musicians only do what they do because they have no capability to do anything different usually being propped up by a producer and a great marketing budget. Ultimately we like to promote actual talent on this site and that includes Supertramp, Kate Bush, David Bowie and 10CC to name a few obvious ones who never were 'prog' at all.

oddly enough, if in Canada, Art Rock rang a bell to a lot of people back then (not sure it still does nowadays), when I crossed the pond back on the continent in the very early 90's, nobody understood "Art Rock" and systematically heard "Hard Rock"...
So when to clear the confusion, I cited a few bands and everyone said : Ah, you mean Progressive rock.



I've never really heard used the other terms at the start of your post.



.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 17884 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 22 minutes ago at 12:01
Hi,

Times change and the weather changes and we get older and slow down ... and ... 

Well I don't think that "art rock" did well in America, because America does not do "art" ... it (usually) only does the top of this or that, or the one that makes most money, or sells the most ... it has not a whole lot to do with art whatsoever, so seeing the word "art rock" taken down ... was not a surprise, since even in England it was always about the top of this or that ... and the term didn't go down as well with them, specially MM and NME ... who immediately said it was ridiculous and snobbish. Well, the fanboys in those periodicals wanted their favorites in the print, ... and that was it ... 

That said, the term did not really help clarify anything, except that when it was first used, it was by some folks playing something less on the rock'n'roll side of things and more on the adventurous side that was quite visible in the early days of the FM radio, in America ... FM radio was late and behind in England ... see Dave Cousins book!

I think that PA's changes were fine, with only one issue for me ... the descriptions are poor in my book, and most often don't really fit some of the bands, although this could be another issue when a band releases another album and it is not "art rock" any more ... heck, we don't need to list the top bands that went "pop" so to speak! Even considering it "art rock" at that point was ridiculous.
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