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Praised prog albums that you think are overrated

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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 19:58
Originally posted by ObeisantBread84 ObeisantBread84 wrote:

Out of the top 20, I would probably say the most overrated is Pawn Hearts. It's fine and all but definitely overrated. However, I have yet to hear Godbluff, Moonmadness, or Per Un Amico so it is possible one of those might be more overrated then pawn hearts.


Pawn Hearts is a grower. It's what i call mature difficult listening music for seasoned proggers. It took me years before it clicked and now it's probably a top 10 of all time of any album. At least top 20

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 20:12
Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

Originally posted by ThyroidGlands ThyroidGlands wrote:

For example, I feel that everything PT and Wilson did is highly overrated. Honestly, I tried many times to listen to their music, and it doesn’t appeal to me at all.
PT and Wilson are actually alt-rock, not progressive rock.

it's called progressive alterative rock. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 20:15
"Pralt"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Starshiper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 20:32
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

Originally posted by ThyroidGlands ThyroidGlands wrote:

For example, I feel that everything PT and Wilson did is highly overrated. Honestly, I tried many times to listen to their music, and it doesn’t appeal to me at all.
PT and Wilson are actually alt-rock, not progressive rock.


Not true. They're both. There are many albums from both SW and PT that are prog. Melodic prog with catchy pop hooks sure, but definitely prog.
Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson, who initially emerged as a slightly psychedelic alternative rock ensemble with a long tail rooted in post-punk, can occasionally be described as “proggy” at their most ambitious. However, PT and Wilson never released a true progressive rock or progressive metal album; their sound is fundamentally characterised as alternative rock or alternative metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 20:36
^ well virtually every site on the web considers them both prog.
Prog is a huge spectrum from prog light to mind f**k prog
Pink Floyd is on the borderline as well but still considered prog
Epic sprawling tunes with rich atmospheric richness
In the end i don't care what it's called. I still love me some PT :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Starshiper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 20:45
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ well virtually every site on the web considers them both prog.
I'm afraid that's irrelevant. For example, in this site database, one can find a bunch of post-rock and even 80s post-punk bands. Are they progressive rock bands now only because somebody added them to this database? No.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 20:51
^ actually it does. If every site calls them prog and i would have to agree that they are as well, then the consensus is that they ARE prog. You seem to be the only one who doesn't agree. You're outvoted. Sorry.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Starshiper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 21:15
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ actually it does. If every site calls them prog and i would have to agree that they are as well, then the consensus is that they ARE prog.
It does not because those with a limited grasp of British and European progressive music tend to include non-progressive bands in progressive music databases simply because they enjoy those bands. Such characters perceive tagging their favourite quirky band as progressive to be a badge of honour, believing that their beloved alternative rock band is somehow lesser if it isn't featured in the progressive site database. In addition, some "connoisseurs" were merely infants during the 1970s or even being born after that decade and thus did not experience the zeitgeist; as a result, they lack a true understanding of what progressive rock entails.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 21:54
Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

Originally posted by ThyroidGlands ThyroidGlands wrote:

For example, I feel that everything PT and Wilson did is highly overrated. Honestly, I tried many times to listen to their music, and it doesn’t appeal to me at all.
PT and Wilson are actually alt-rock, not progressive rock.


Not true. They're both. There are many albums from both SW and PT that are prog. Melodic prog with catchy pop hooks sure, but definitely prog.
Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson, who initially emerged as a slightly psychedelic alternative rock ensemble with a long tail rooted in post-punk, can occasionally be described as “proggy” at their most ambitious. However, PT and Wilson never released a true progressive rock or progressive metal album; their sound is fundamentally characterised as alternative rock or alternative metal.
For sure. Porcupine Tree & Steven Wilson first vibed off Pink Floyd, but they've really carved out their own sound that mixes alt-rock with some proggy flair, all while keeping a unique identity that pulls in elements of both alt-rock & alternative metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2024 at 22:14
Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

This may cause severe outrage, but I think all of Neo-Prog (minus Frost* and Sanguine Hum) is overrated.

Overrated?! I don't see it. 

Sure, I can think of a few neo-prog albums I find overrated, but the genre as a whole, it's not. In fact is one of the least liked prog subgenres, on PA and i imagine elsewhere as well. 
In fact, sales figures indicate otherwise. While Neo-Prog bands may not attain the same level of mainstream recognition as pop or rock superstars, many have enjoyed commendable sales figures within their niche. For instance, Marillion has sold over 15 million albums globally since the release of Script for a Jester's Tear; their annual convention events draw hundreds of fans who purchase tickets well in advance. Their most recent album, "An Hour Before It's Dark", entered the UK Albums Chart at No. 2. Other Neo-Prog bands, such as IQ, Pallas, and Pendragon, are performing well in terms of both album sales and concert ticket sales; they got favourable reception from fans and critics regarding their latest albums.
Furthermore, it's important to note that most people out there associate "prog" with the Neo-prog sound.

Only Marillion and Arena have achieved any real commmercial success. Arena were well backed by their record company in the 90's. IQ could have been commercially sucessful if Peter Nicholls had hung around after The Wake. Their only charting album was that album (no 70 for one week in the UK charts , wow that really moved the needle!!) and they were signed up by a big label with Paul Menel at the helm. They were supposed to do what Marillion did but it never happened. In the 90's they formed GEP records and helped to foster newish prog bands like Threshold and Spocks Beard. It was never a massive thing though and Martin Orford left the band in the 00's to become a lorry driver as he was disillusioned by the lack of reward for the work. Marillion have remained the only consistently sucessful Neo Prog band but they are on a different level to any anyone else. I am an IQ fan. Generally all their albums are rated about right. They are consistent in quality. Some will say their last album Resistance is overrated. Personally the only one I think of that about is The Road Of Bones. It's often held up as their masterpiece nowadays but it doesn't do any anything different to earlier albums such as The Seventh House and Dark Matter. They are all about the same level. I would actually put Frequency slightly above for the drumming of Andy Edwards, now a popular you tuber who also played on Frost* Milliontown.


Edited by richardh - November 29 2024 at 22:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2024 at 21:08
Hi,

I, honestly, can not say much about all this ... since I do not look at artists as a commercial this or that and consider them "overrated" or "underrated" ... it is what it is, let's say, and I do think that it was the Internet that infused and nurtured, the chance for many bands to get better, and more attention ... but not everyone was as well attuned to the computer world, as some folks that came out of that time really well, and succeeded from it.

Today ... the comments, and lists, I tend to think, really hurt the whole thing. In the early days, it was that we were not listed anywhere, that gave us the name and the sales ... today, this is rarely the case, and not being mentioned or seen on the Internet, is the best case to go back to getting a job and quit the art of the music, since now you have a child and ... and ... sometimes ... it's hard to NOT think that the majority of stuff listed out there, is the same ... format, sound, solo ... with a handful of bands that are different and stand out ... but too many things are far out, and now and then ... get some attention, but not the wider appreciation that they likely deserve and should have because too many folks would rather hide behind the "overrated" and "underrated" ideas ... instead of listening to the music.

I don't like "ethnocentric" ideas ... and sometimes, for me, the this and that ... becomes an excuse to put down something or other, while lifting your favorite ... by burying the "competition".


Edited by moshkito - November 30 2024 at 21:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2024 at 23:09
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by ObeisantBread84 ObeisantBread84 wrote:

Out of the top 20, I would probably say the most overrated is Pawn Hearts. It's fine and all but definitely overrated. However, I have yet to hear Godbluff, Moonmadness, or Per Un Amico so it is possible one of those might be more overrated then pawn hearts.


Pawn Hearts is a grower. It's what i call mature difficult listening music for seasoned proggers. It took me years before it clicked and now it's probably a top 10 of all time of any album. At least top 20
 
Pawn Hearts was my second exposure to Van der Graaf Generator after World Record. Although it took a few listens to World Record for me to fully appreciate it, Pawn Hearts was an instant love. It was the music I had not realised was missing from my life. It became my all-time favourite album and remains such to this day. No other album by anyone (including VdGG) even comes close. Thus, with its current position at #12 in the all-time top 100 PA albums, I consider it to be underrated, though I do acknowledge that the music of Pawn Hearts is not for everyone.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2024 at 23:18
A highly praised album that I consider to be overrated, even though I do like the album, is King Crimson - Red. Listening to the album, it seems to me to have fewer musical ideas than an album as highly praised as Red ought to have.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2024 at 23:36
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

A highly praised album that I consider to be overrated, even though I do like the album, is King Crimson - Red. Listening to the album, it seems to me to have fewer musical ideas than an album as highly praised as Red ought to have.

Bravo!  My thoughts exactly!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2024 at 23:56
^ Now Red is overrated, too. LOL An album so influential... Confused I don't get it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Starshiper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2024 at 02:15
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

A highly praised album that I consider to be overrated, even though I do like the album, is King Crimson - Red. Listening to the album, it seems to me to have fewer musical ideas than an album as highly praised as Red ought to have.
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment that Red is an album that has been somewhat overhyped. The only track I find appealing is Starless. For me, that's King Crimson. The other songs vary significantly in style. Red and One More Red Nightmare both take a rather earnest plunge into the "hard rock" sound; however, would you agree that bands like Rush, Rainbow, and Blue Öyster Cult presented the "hard rock" sound in the mid-seventies with far more splendour than Mr. Fripp, despite odd time signatures, managed with his already dilapidated vehicle?
Fallen Angel presents a more refined sound, yet nothing special really; Providence is an experimental and improvisational track that sounds rather dated now, in my view.
Although the album, interspersed with improvisational and jazz influences, may be enjoyable for enthusiasts of the heavy sound, I must admit that Red has always left me pretty indifferent in comparison with, for instance, the first four KC albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2024 at 07:53
Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

...
 would you agree that bands like Rush, Rainbow, and Blue Öyster Cult presented the "hard rock" sound in the mid-seventies with far more splendour than Mr. Fripp, despite odd time signatures, managed with his already dilapidated vehicle?
...

Hi,

May I correct this line? ... LOUDER  ... not exactly more splendour.

Smile Wink LOL Embarrassed (below for fun!!!)

Let's see ... in your cannon ... Mona Lisa is overrated! Guernica is a sort of toilet bowl! Miro is a bunch of color lines to psychedelicize your mind! Beethoven is boring and a hacker! The Beatles were cardboard! Hard rock was invented by others, not the 3 you mention I don't think! You like the melodic hard rock stuff! Odd time signatures are meaningless in one's listening experience! Abba's girls were not as nice looking as Playboy! (... and besides, Priscilla -- (that movie) was much better and more fun!)! Madonna was still a virgin! .... fun times, let me tell you! Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2024 at 12:08
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ Now Red is overrated, too. LOL An album so influential... Confused I don't get it...

I thought LTIA was more ground-breaking (Jamie Muir!), and higher energy.  SBB had better composition than Red in my opinion, but that LP doesn't seem to garner the love that Red draws. 

I think that the "metallic" sound of Red drew younger listeners, and is more contemporary than LTIA or SBBB.  
However, Red doesn't have a song that equals LTIA Part 2 or Fracture IMHO, except for the amazing "Starless." 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Starshiper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2024 at 12:12
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

...
 would you agree that bands like Rush, Rainbow, and Blue Öyster Cult presented the "hard rock" sound in the mid-seventies with far more splendour than Mr. Fripp, despite odd time signatures, managed with his already dilapidated vehicle?
...

Hi,

May I correct this line? ... LOUDER  ... not exactly more splendour.

Aha. Dig it.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2024 at 13:28
I will limit this to bands/artists I'm actually a fan of:

1. Yes: Tales from Topographic Oceans
2. Genesis: Trespass
3. Genesis: Nursery Cryme
4. Alan Parsons Project: Tales of Mystery and Imagination
5. Moody Blues: In Search of the Lost Chord
6. Rush: 2112
7. Rush: Moving Pictures
8. Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte
9. E.L.P.: Tarkus
10. Pink Floyd: The Wall
11. Mike Oldfield: Tubular Bells
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