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QM: Does Time exist?

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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 18:52
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Am I going to have to close this thread too?


Have I done something wrong, Ian? Concerned because I have been the last to comment, we are a team, and you phrased at as I rather than we.

Edited by Logan - November 21 2024 at 18:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 18:54
Nope - but its getting rather heated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 18:59
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Nope - but its getting rather heated.
Oh please, if this is heated then no discussion of diverse interest or debate of any probative value may be tolerated.   I do hope that is not the case.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:01
^^ Is it heated? I had not even noticed (not with me at all). Some humour, warmth, amiability and positivity can go a long way to de-escalate situations I think if you think there is one. But different people have different style of moderation and mediation (I became a mod here in like 2008 or 2009 and still not very good at it). My way often just leads to tears, unfortunately, despite when I have good intentions. I don't believe in being heavy-handed unless deemed necessary or it's too much effort not to (the latter often being the case). I do believe that as much as possible the forum should be left to moderate itself. This is not kindergarten.

Edited by Logan - November 21 2024 at 19:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:06
I think the conversation was cool, likewise Ian is just doing his job 'moderating' as they say.    
Anyway, I go way back, I can remember when 'heated' on this site was much worse. Its a pretty mellow site these days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:09
^ Because the moratorium on specifically political topics has held... so far.

And Ian does a great job, I like that admins can police other admins.   Checks & balances.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:12
^ I'm a moderator too, of course, and have been for many years here, so was just a bit more concerned. It's good to have different styles and personalities, that bring some balance and checks. Shame more people don't wish to join as mods (tried to recruit and pass the mantle so to speak), but it can be super unpleasant and stressful, at least for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:17
^ Oh hell yeah, that's why I flatly turned down Tony's invitation to be an admin years ago, and/or just to moderate.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:22
^ We could have been doing it together at the same time. Somehow I think we might have had too much fun with it. Seriously, I would have loved to do that stuff with you here, and along with Tony R, fantastic. I miss him. I sometimes gave him a bit of a hard time, regret that, but I always really respected and liked him. Lots of fun, and actually a very nice guy. You guys and others made this forum special to me, and I remain in that debt. I do miss the old days.... Things could get super heated and also be super fun at the same time.

Edited by Logan - November 21 2024 at 19:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:28
Tony was a tough man.   Old school serious sh*t.   The kind of guy that would see someone pushing aside an elderly person on the street and suggest they might get their nose broken.   My kinda dude.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:42
I'll leave you guys to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 19:51
^ The more hopefully the merrier, Ian. I do appreciate all the hard work you have been doing and was very enthusiastic about joining us an Admin. It is good to have different perspective and bring different ideas to the table. It would be good to have more Admin still, partially to lighten the load on us, to get different perspective and it just can make the whole thing more fun. When there were lots of admin the Admin zone looked like party central, now the tumbleweeds are floating though it. More can help to inspire more and to offer support and advice.

Anyway, I am done with this topic. I'll leave you to keep an eye on it if willing, and of course if you see abuse, or it gets political, it should be closed. I'm happiest when I am NOT moderating so very happy to leave it to others when they feel it is necessary or asked of them to step in. Lots of ways to moderate and de-escalate perceived tensions. Shifting focus, cracking jokes, love-bombing lol, whatever... Ideally, I feel, but I have failed at this too many times, it should be done with some tact, discretion, diplomacy and ideally some compassion and kindness (may not be warranted or advisable). Of course one does not wish to seem officious or too domineering (or like THE authority), and a little warmth and appreciation goes a long way, but sometime one just has to be formal and lay down the rules.

Edited by Logan - November 21 2024 at 20:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 20:09
I'd volunteer for admin if I thought I would not at any moment kick someone squarely in the gonads for being stupid.   Not necessarily a great approach.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 20:20
^ I can be volatile and I'm not as much of a pacifist as I sometimes speak. I do think it helps to have some experience working with mental health issues. We all go through struggles and have bad or even horrific days, and a bit of compassion, a bit of tolerance, some empathy and some understanding can mean a lot. But you need to be strong enough and thick skinned enough not to care too much too. Definitely want kind and pretty easy-going candidates that are willing to work within rules and work together as a team.

EDIT: And a good moderator is someone who is both a good listener and a very good communicator, knows when to be discrete and supportive and when not to be, can be diplomatic but also be a straight-shooter, is not ruled by emotions, as well as having more patience than I often can muster.

Edited by Logan - November 21 2024 at 21:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 20:30
Definitely a lot to be said for self-reflection and personal growth.   I wish I had a "thick skin" but in reality I'm a mercurial if highly liberal person.   Easy going and compassionate, yes.   Kind and willing to work within rules, not so much.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2024 at 20:49
You guys prove time exists…in spades!!    

It was a cool thread until someone had to bring science into it!!! Hahah

All in fun.   Some very intelligent posts here on all sides of life’s greatest mysteries!

Edited by Valdez - November 21 2024 at 21:47
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 05:56
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Which is why it's so important to keep investigating not just new information but especially what you already have looked at.   Over and over and over and over and over and over again.   Further, in that time one's perspective, opinions, and character change.   It may not necessarily make you more informed, but it certainly makes you more intelligent and more exposed.

Reevaluation is one of the most under-recognized avenues and underutilized tools.   Maybe the most, and that only becomes clear once you star doing it.   It is annoying and painful, but those who have not taken it upon themselves to do so are the ones who I trust the least and whose opinions I value the least.

This is very true of genealogical research. Reevaluations have helped me identify ancestors that were misidentified by others which I originally took for granted because their research was excellent up until that misidentification. They can help find ways to break down so-called brick walls. I still have plenty of those, but mostly it's because the paper trails run dry. Some countries were better at others at keeping records and some countries have lost records due to building fires and such, the most notable being the loss of the 19th century Irish census records in 1922. 

It's also worthy to take deep dives and follow all the references a researcher gives. Sometimes there are interesting things within those references the researcher either didn't pick up on or didn't think was relevant. It's always a red flag when a researcher fills up their references with their own works. 

Sorry to digress, but your points are very worthy of attention.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 06:12
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Am I going to have to close this thread too?

This is exactly what I wanted to demonstrate with this "innocent" thread: it's not just politics. There's a huge number of arguments which can become divisive.  
As for scientific discoveries, they aren't goos or bad, it' the use made of them that turns themo into bad or good.

My "theory" is that the site rules are enough. Admins can send warnings and eventually block the "offenders" without bothering in deciding whether an argument is good or bad.

Vaccines, Flat Earth, Green Deal, I guess I can raise a fight just posting the right "innocuous" sentence in the right moment. 

Imagine a thread about a specific Marillion's song: Gaza. 

 
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 06:23
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Often people who research and research and research just ending up going deeper and deeper down rabbitholes only paying "serious" attention to that which already confirms their biases. Years and years of research is not always helpful in getting to the truth (not all research has the same merit) and can lead to a bunch of other questionable beliefs, pseudo-scientific views and general crackpottery.

The sunk cost fallacy also plays into this. People who have invested years of "research" (however meaningful it might have been) and possibly money (you can buy some really expensive Orgone "devices" on the internet) do not like the idea that it might all have been a waste of time - or even worse, that they've "been had". The typical angry responses and personal attacks one gets for pointing out basic facts to these people (like that their tenets contradict well-established scientific laws and therefore cannot be correct) are a strong indication of these biases having been at work for years. 

Disclaimer: I fully acknowledge that I also have my biases. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 06:30
But admittedly the people building this stuff have a knack for design. Should automatically appeal to audiophiles (lots of pseudo-science in audio technology as well) and, by extension, prog fans.

Imagine having bought such a gadget for $500 and then reading on the internet that it's all a fraud ... the cognitive dissonance.   



Hey, it's even USB-C powered Cool


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - Yesterday at 06:31
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