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    Posted: October 10 2024 at 11:30
"Algorithmia Echoes" is a Post Rock and Progressive Rock musical project that explores the intersection of human creativity and artificial intelligence. Using AI as a tool, the project takes on an iterative approach to music creation, where the artist acts more like a Producer or Music Director, guiding the AI to generate and refine sounds that align with specific emotional and sonic goals.

"Algorithmia Echoes" sees AI as a way to achieve a personalized sound, much like having a virtual band at one's disposal, capable of responding to detailed creative input. Despite the AI’s involvement, the result feels personal and authentic to the creator.

While AI is used to generate the initial musical fragments, a significant amount of editing and direction is required to shape the final product, ensuring that it reflects the artist's personal vision. The process involves describing desired moods and sounds to the AI, which then creates numerous fragments. From there, the artist selects and refines those with potential, working closely with the AI to expand and evolve them in the intended direction.

At its core, "Algorithmia Echoes" is an experiment in generating music that is "made to order," offering a new way of crafting soundscapes that resonate with the artist’s—and potentially the audience’s—preferences.

While not seeking recognition as an artist, the creator wishes to share this project with those who might appreciate its sound and concept.

The aim of his debut album "Whispers Of Existence Within An Invisible Prison" is to evoke feelings of melancholy, loneliness, and isolation. The sound is deliberately cold, hopeless, and dehumanized, much like the vast, indifferent universe. It will release October 25, 2024 in main streaming platforms, but it can be listening to completely as a pre-order in bandcamp now.







Edited by AlgorithmiaEchoes - October 15 2024 at 10:56
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Points: 6357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2024 at 14:42
I'm not sure that Progarchives is quite ready to embrace AI-generated music at the moment. There have been several threads on the topic recently - one here, and another here, as examples of how this community feels about it.

As for the suggestion itself, you would need to provide a bit more information about the background of your project than those two lines above. See this guide on making new submissions for the inclusion of a band or artist on PA.

The music contained within the 'Remote Whispers of Existence Within An Invisible Prison' album doesn't do much for me personally to be honest. The tracks all sound rather soulless, quite similar in structure, and I'm struggling to hear any real creativity from a prog perspective. It's certainly an ambitious and far-reaching concept that you describe in some detail on Bandcamp, but for me the music itself doesn't quite live up to the expectations that the descriptions of the various tracks conjure up, and based on this album I think there is some way still to go with your experiments using AI as a creative tool before their output could really be considered for inclusion on this site...assuming of course that PA eventually accepts the concept of using AI assistance as an acceptable way of creating music in the first place.

Those are just my own thoughts. Others may feel differently of course.

Edit: Just saw your other post in the 'Welcome Artists' section of the forum, which does include a bit more detail about the project's aims. The two earlier individual tracks on Bandcamp from back in the summer which also contain vocals - namely 'Find Your Way' and 'Fade On' - sound quite a bit more promising to me than the more recent, fully instrumental album.


Edited by yam yam - October 10 2024 at 16:06
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Points: 14110 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2024 at 17:37
Probably some people had the same perplexity when the first sequencer came out
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Points: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlgorithmiaEchoes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2024 at 10:25
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

I'm not sure that Progarchives is quite ready to embrace AI-generated music at the moment. There have been several threads on the topic recently - one here, and another here, as examples of how this community feels about it.

As for the suggestion itself, you would need to provide a bit more information about the background of your project than those two lines above. See this guide on making new submissions for the inclusion of a band or artist on PA.

The music contained within the 'Remote Whispers of Existence Within An Invisible Prison' album doesn't do much for me personally to be honest. The tracks all sound rather soulless, quite similar in structure, and I'm struggling to hear any real creativity from a prog perspective. It's certainly an ambitious and far-reaching concept that you describe in some detail on Bandcamp, but for me the music itself doesn't quite live up to the expectations that the descriptions of the various tracks conjure up, and based on this album I think there is some way still to go with your experiments using AI as a creative tool before their output could really be considered for inclusion on this site...assuming of course that PA eventually accepts the concept of using AI assistance as an acceptable way of creating music in the first place.

Those are just my own thoughts. Others may feel differently of course.

Edit: Just saw your other post in the 'Welcome Artists' section of the forum, which does include a bit more detail about the project's aims. The two earlier individual tracks on Bandcamp from back in the summer which also contain vocals - namely 'Find Your Way' and 'Fade On' - sound quite a bit more promising to me than the more recent, fully instrumental album.

Thank you very much for taking the time to listen to my musical project and for sharing your impressions. 

I understand that the use of AI in music creation stirs up controversy, much like in any other profession that feels threatened. However, I would like to clarify that creating music in this way makes me feel more like a Producer or Music Director rather than a Composer, so I do not intend to equate my project with the talent of a real artist. That said, I do believe that this approach can lead to content that a particular audience may enjoy.

AI makes me feel as if I magically have a band at my disposal, one to whom I have to explain the sound I want. I describe what I’m aiming for to this fictional band, and they create numerous fragments based on my guidance (and I assure you, the number of discarded fragments is enormous). When I find a fragment with potential, I give new instructions to expand it in the direction I want. It’s quite an iterative process that requires a lot of editing, and I’m convinced that anyone who experiments with these tools will end up creating something they enjoy because anything you don’t like can be edited to your taste.

These models are trained to convey a wide range of emotions, so I respectfully disagree with your view that AI generates soulless sounds. It’s just a matter of editing what you feel lacks soul until you get what you desire. The process can be more or less lengthy, but in the end, you will certainly arrive at something you like. It’s like generating music à la carte, tailored to your preferences.

In my case, I’m pleased with the result, which is why I’ve chosen to share it. I was aiming for feelings of melancholy, loneliness, and isolation, so for this project, I wanted a sound that felt somewhat cold, hopeless, and dehumanized, much like the universe itself. Therefore, I find it coherent that you describe it as soulless. Many Post-Rock bands go for this kind of sound, and they’re made by humans.

I want to clarify that I’m not seeking recognition as an artist or trying to make a living from this. I simply want to share something I’ve crafted according to my tastes, and for that reason, it feels like mine, for anyone who might enjoy it.

As soon as I find the time, I’ll expand on the description, as you suggested. Again, thank you for the time you've taken!

Edit: Band description updated. I’ve used everything I mentioned in this post to craft my introduction.



Edited by AlgorithmiaEchoes - October 15 2024 at 11:02
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Points: 6357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2024 at 14:47
^ Thank you very much indeed for this reply explaining how you actually use AI to generate this music, and for updating your artist description in the original post. Yes, your intention of creating a sound that felt cold, hopeless and dehumanized certainly explains why I found it rather soulless, and post-rock does indeed often does evoke a feeling of melancholy and isolation. I have a feeling that AI generated music is inevitably going to have to be accepted by most of us in the end - despite the current reluctance to embrace it that exists in many circles - since more and more people are going to experiment with it and share the results as the technology behind it is developed further. Whether that will turn out to be a good thing or not, I really have no idea at the moment. Only time will tell, I guess.

Edit: I have absolutely zero musical ability of my own, and I can't string more than a few notes together on any instrument, but I just had a quick play with Udio. It was incredibly easy to generate quite convincing sounding progressive rock music (well, the 32 second samples certainly sounded pretty good) in less than a couple of minutes. I can imagine if I spent some time refining it, the results could be quite impressive. It's actually rather frightening how easy it was to create perfectly passable music using this tool, and how little time it took.

Let's hope that there will be eventually also be free AI detectors like Quillbot available that can reliably tell whether a piece of music is likely to be AI or human-generated, since I don't believe such a thing exists at the moment. There are proprietary tools available such as Ircam Amplify, which claim to be circa 98.5% accurate, but they are not cheap.


Edited by yam yam - October 15 2024 at 18:14
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Points: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlgorithmiaEchoes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2024 at 10:07
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

^ 

Edit: I have absolutely zero musical ability of my own, and I can't string more than a few notes together on any instrument, but I just had a quick play with Udio. It was incredibly easy to generate quite convincing sounding progressive rock music (well, the 32 second samples certainly sounded pretty good) in less than a couple of minutes. I can imagine if I spent some time refining it, the results could be quite impressive. It's actually rather frightening how easy it was to create perfectly passable music using this tool, and how little time it took.


It's true that it's very easy to get track snippets with Udio. But generating a complete album that revolves around a single idea and has coherence requires some perseverance. 
Just as a reference, I’ll mention that to generate the entire album, I had to use more than 1,200 tokens. This means I generated over 2,400 fragments of 32 seconds each (more than 21 hours of music) until I reached the final result that I was satisfied with. 
Additionally, there were the necessary post-edits to trim and combine certain fragments into a single track when they were part of independently generated pieces, and the mixing of instruments, which I had to separate using another AI tool when I needed to equalize and balance the bass and treble across tracks. To ensure everything had some coherence as an album, I did a joint mastering of all the tracks. 
I managed to do all of this in one month (in my free time), which obviously doesn’t compare to the effort required to make an album the traditional way. But it’s not an instant process either (at least not yet).


Edited by AlgorithmiaEchoes - October 16 2024 at 10:08
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Points: 6357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2024 at 14:37
Thanks again for explaining how it is a much more complicated process to produce a complete album of properly mastered music using Udio than it is to simply generate a couple of 32 second samples from some quickly typed prompts, as I did.

I've since read a bit more about what Udio can actually do if you are prepared to invest some time into it, and it really does look like becoming a phenomenally powerful platform for non-musicians to be able to 'create' music in the comfort of their own home which is comparable in every way to material that a real band would have to expend a hell of a lot more effort and commitment to put together in a recording studio.

As I said before though, I'm not sure whether this will turn out to be a good thing in the long run. There is always the risk that it's more widespread use could eventually have some serious negative implications for the traditional music industry.
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