The Republican Thunderdome

That's not an excuse.

Edited by Hrychu - June 02 2024 at 01:19

Sadly, yes. And it makes me cringe, that with all this negativity all around, some would rather express their frustration by politician's bad decisions by furiously ranting about it on a prog rock forum as opposed to proper anger management.

I'm under the impression that Atavarchon tends to get easily triggered by people expressing political views different to his.

RFK should learn about the benefits of gargling with salt water before he seriously considers throwing his hat in the ring. How can you be president when you sound worse than Harvey Fierstein.

^ I just think these exaggerated assumptions are not helpful to the discussion, and neither is dehumanizing the enemy. Call him "Orange Hitler" all you want, if it floats your boat (EDIT: addressing various members here, not you specifically), but it does not help your cause one bit. If anything, it plays into his hands ("see, they're demonizing me!").

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 31 2024 at 01:32

Atavachron wrote: ^ He can say whatever he wants, even his supporters don't believe a word he says.   But that's because they want a lying psychopath in office. Our best hope is all the Independents with minds and patriotism.   But it is a wonderful day and I will take it !

^ Very glad to hear that, and I also consider you to be a friend. It's a juggling act and hard to find the right balance, and you can't please everyone. I just hope people by now who has interacted with me for years in an at all personal way realise that I generally mean well even if I go about things ineptly. Okay, sometimes I have been quite the prick (being a prick can be too much fun)... ;) I don't want to see these forums neutered by politeness either, if you know what I mean. That's not invigorating or much fun. And there is something to be said for righteous anger and indignation. And many sure do deserve their comeuppance.

Edited by Logan - May 30 2024 at 21:27

I was not blaming you and was surprised at your apparent hostility towards me. I try to do right, as I guess you do in your own way, but I am a failure.

It's because you (and others) suggested it and we have talked about tone that I felt that I should share the issue with the forum (I wish we could move almost all discussion from behind closed doors and involve the whole community if possible in policy -- I am an old socialist, you know). That said, IT IS news-worthy. I was not intending to threaten. I feel that closing threads should be last resort, and that it's better to agree to standards of behaviour that don't lead to it. Often laws are required when consideration and courtesy fail. Anyway, it seem my intent has not been clear in the other thread or here
I have been speaking about retiring as an admin and moving away from the site, and thinking that time has come. I was not meaning to threaten but felt it my responsibility to share (a warning at best). 18 years here, and I started as moderator years go, and it seems people really just don't understand my intent often, and I can only blame that on myself for not being clear over the years. I like to amicably talk things out and come to agreements and share ideas. I do believe that a big part of good moderating is mediation, but my attempts at diplomacy too often fail.

As a moderator people expect action of you, complain when you try and when you don't. A lot of expecation on me, but it seems people often don't care about making it easier on the mods to not HAVE to be or be asked to step in. Ideally, a forum moderates itself. It's not a school playground. We are mostly rational adults that form a community. A dysfunctional one perhaps.

I do feel like there is alack of charitability sometimes here when it comes to intent and trying to make things easier and more welcoming for others (and sometimes that has been from myself).

Anyway, I don't like the more political threads here and generally prefer to stay out of them. That said, I have enjoyed talking politics at some forums like Project Reason ages ago, but it it can be very demanding (especially with the standards of argumentation and evidence there, reminds me of being in university again) and I am no news junkie.

I do wish we could all try to get along but it is very divisive world (at least i hope this Prog community can be more harmonious despite the differences in tastes, and some preference dissonance to consonance).

Anyway, i will leave it to my betters to decide on what action to take.

^ Threats. It's a reminder of the rules and relates to what we have been discussing in the collab zone about banning religious and political topics. If you mean this "Possibly your ability to post here." My bad, I forogt to use a winky as that was meant to be on the funny side (no worries, been told my sense of humour sucks).

I thought we were going to avoid such topics, even though I understand bringing up the news. If they are to continue, we need strong rules. I have dealt with a lot of complaints when it comes to political threads, that is time consuming for me, and have had people saying they don't want to post here because of this stuff. My thinking often has been, if you don't like it, stay out of it and do wish we could have wide range of discussions while remaining civil.

I'd rather it be a group action, ideally, and I like consensus if possible. We are all bound to the rules and it has been expected of me as a moderator since 2008 or 2009 to remind people of those. Surprised by the reaction after what has been discussed by us in the collab zone. Sad I am not a better diplomat.

Atavachron wrote: ...What have you got to lose?   Nothing.

Possibly your ability to post here.

I will say here now that we have been having discussions about not allowing political (and religious) topics at PA as there have been complaints about aggressive, abusive, rude behaviour. That does not mean an outright ban on mentioning anything of a political or religious nature, especially as that can be related to music. Like we can still call Christian Vander Christian instead of Chris, we can still mention Roger Waters politics and political and religious themes in music but we should be careful about having threads devoted to such topics, sensitive to others who might have other ideas, and we should avoid, IMO, sensationalist language and things that reek of ad hominems. I think it's often better to focus on the facts (as we know them) and avoid really charged and rude biased language.

A reminder of some of the forum rules that we agree to be bound by a s condition of posting here (of course there is some flexibility and various of us go over the line now and then):

1. No Vulgarity, profanity or bigotry. We ask all members to refrain from using "foul language." Profanity - the deliberate denigration of another person's belief, will not be tolerated. Our membership is global, and thus represents a host of spiritual and religious beliefs. Given this, profanity is tantamount to personal attack (see next entry). Likewise, there is no place in this forum for bigotry (this includes religious bigotry, racism, and sexual discrimination) which are also considered to be personal attacks. We are committed to not censoring messages or opinions, but this is a moderated forum. We simply want to maintain the spirit of an open, interactive discussion without offending any of the participants. Any deliberate and conscious attempt to "circumvent" or ignore this guideline will be seen as grounds for a warning to be issued, and may result in ejection from the site. Note that this rule extends to forum names too. You should ensure that your chosen forum name is not likely to cause offense to other members. 2. No Personal attacks (flaming or trolling). Keep it civil, show respect at all times for your fellow members. Disagreement, debate, even "heated" discussion is fine (though emoticons should be used to "soften" the effect of words). However, personally directed insults, denigration, etc. will not be tolerated, and will be grounds for warning and, if not stopped immediately, ejection. This applies equally to forum posts AND private messages. "Group-directed" insults and denigration (e.g., racism, sexism, ageism, etc.) also fall under this category, any such behaviour will be taken on a case by case basis. Any member who engages in continuous baiting, borderline insults, or other continuously "aggressive" behaviour will be warned. Any member found to be using concurrent multiple personae (more than one profile at the same time) will be ejected from the site. ................... 4. No Sniping. If you feel that someone has (i) baited or personally attacked you through the behaviours described in 1 or 2 above (whether in a thread or in a PM), do not engage that member in that thread, or reply to the PM. Instead, immediately send a PM to a forum moderator with details of (i) which member and (ii) which thread (please give the name of the thread, not the link) - or, if a PM, copy and paste in the text of the offending PM. The moderator will then determine what action needs to be taken (if any) and will reply to you. The moderators will try to reply to such incidents within 24 hours. In the meantime, please ignore that member and do not engage them in any way.

So please be civil. I like to say, feel free to speak your mind but mind your speech. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. This topic might well get closed fairly soon as a political thread. I would hope for attempts at rational and civil discussion.

By the way, I think most of us know know where we stand (just like people know the kinds of music I am into some might add), and opinions on a not very busy Prog Forum are unlikely to change the world much, and there are much better places and organisations with which to discuss and act on politics and social issues that might actually have more of a component that are likely to lead to positive change. I was an active ember of Amnesty International, they do some good stuff. And my old Sociology professor tried to make me a Marxist-Leninist doing campaigns, but it was not for me (was a lot of anger there).

Edited by Logan - May 30 2024 at 19:55