In The Wake Of Poseidon. A Discussion.

I don't believe Fripp had much forgiveness toward McDonald and Giles . I recall reading something in the 70s which described McDonald and Giles handing in their resignation while on tour and how Fripp's stomach dropped. Of course this is not to say that journalism never exaggerates either, but it is possible they destroyed his dream or his achievements up to that point.

On another note....Giles seemed quite disturbed about touring. The way in which Giles describes it being like the circus. Literally feeling as if you are caged up most of the time and let loose on a stage and quickly returned to the cage again to be part of the transport into yet another city....is quite the opposite of waking up in your home, making coffee and glancing out the window ...thinking and planning your day. Absolutely not! Being on the road is extreme and it is a redundancy as well. Perhaps Giles made a mistake by participating in the first place.

Possibly it was more comforting for him to take the train into London to do session work...making decent money..and returning to his home to relax. He was active with Jackson Heights I believe? And he certainly played some nice drum work on Anthony Phillips recordings.

On the cover of PROGRESS , ( his solo album)..is a photograph of him waiting for a train. Standing by the railroad tracks with his drum cases. It's an outstanding album musically and it has a kind of Canterbury style. A few members of Caravan are on the sessions. Several songs are lyrically attached to a storyline of a guy that takes the train into the city to do session work . It hints at that. A guy who enjoys living in the country or by the sea where children play and the images that the songs create in the lyricism are dreamy and far away from the image of being caged up and let loose to perform on a road tour. I don't think Fripp respected Giles decision to leave and probably resented him for it.

^ This type of petty contentious behavior is usually found in many straight up rock bands. But as Fripp has said of his last touring lineup, it was the first time that a band member didn't openly resent him. That's a lot of years to put up with that type of situation. The old boy must have some kind of thick skin.

Edited by SteveG - April 16 2024 at 09:32

Sean Trane wrote: The problem with that Rockumentary is that it seems set up as if the ultimate and final version of Crimso was the utmost and final (only) apex of the band's long career

Edited by Valdez1 - April 16 2024 at 10:56

SteveG wrote: ... More interesting info to ponder over. Adds a lot to the KC history.

There was always some strange sh*t going on between Lake and Fripp. They both grew up in the same town and had the same guitar teacher. Fripp claimed he only picked Lake for the KC line up because he was a good looking young man. Fripp later turned up at an ELP gig, tried to stay anonymous but Lake spotted him and asked to see him. Apparently there were more words and a big fall out. Yep those 2 were never going to be in the same band together for long. Lake could surely have not believed his good luck when Emerson approached him with the idea to form a new band.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: I'll give the edge to court over this one but on the other hand I'll take the Devil's Triangle over Moonchild any day. Regarding TDT, I didn't like it at first but it grew on me. I defy anyone to find a prog track that has mellotrons blaring out the speakers like that one. The so called "noise" is actually (imo) musical deconstruction. That took me a while to get into but there's really nothing like it and if it is improv then I like it better than some of their other improv pieces.

"The Devil's Triangle" was originally supposed to be a cover of Gustav Holst's "Mars" suite that King Crimson used to play live, but because of a copyright issue at the time, they ended up making that track. It's actually a great creepy three-part epic that sounds unlike anything that has ever been recorded before, with a brief extension of the "Peace" theme towards the album's conclusion. Also, one can hear a little of "The Court of the Crimson King" near the end, and it fits the haunting atmosphere beautifully; not to mention that King Crimson sampling themselves before sampling was a very wonderful thing. 

moshkito wrote: The KC film has some information on this, and Robert makes it clear that has regrets about how it happened.

if anyone regrets, it's Ian who tearfully apologizes (OK, the man was almost on his dying bed at the time and is not with us anymore), but Michael certainly wasn't allowed to speak his mind (or at least not included in the montage).

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: I'll give the edge to court over this one but on the other hand I'll take the Devil's Triangle over Moonchild any day. Regarding TDT, I didn't like it at first but it grew on me. I defy anyone to find a prog track that has mellotrons blaring out the speakers like that one. The so called "noise" is actually (imo) musical deconstruction. That took me a while to get into but there's really nothing like it and if it is improv then I like it better than some of their other improv pieces.

SteveG wrote: moshkito wrote: SteveG wrote: ... More interesting info to ponder over. Adds a lot to the KC history. Hi, The KC film has some information on this, and Robert makes it clear that has regrets about how it happened. As for the album, I don't know ... just heard it again, and did not find it to have the importance and the creative forces that were present in the first album ... my take is, sort of, that they had already said all there was to say about the time and the place, and now ... what do we do? A half hearted return to the original appeared as the opening and closing of the album. In between? Not sure it was as important and clear.  I fell out of KC during this time, as the imports from Europe were better and more valuable all around, and were quite far and away more original and very strong. And its history ended up giving us TD, KS, Can, AD2 and many others ... whose legacy is amazing.  I returned to KC with Lark's ... when Bill Bruford joined KC ... somehow I thought that would be interesting, and it was ... massive set of albums coming up! However, by that time, I was already invested in the European scene, and in general, only PF and KC remained in my plate, as Genesis was nice, but not as adventurous and strong as Banco, Ange, PFM and the Germans for me, in those days. Fair enough. People sometimes move on.

Edited by moshkito - April 17 2024 at 04:41

moshkito wrote: Hi, I moved on, because the English scene became boring and smelly. And many of the bands did not have any idea of how to do a 2nd album, after a successful 1st, which made me think that the record company was the problem putting on the pressure, which might have killed a few things ... like, the new album had to have a loud composition with the mellotron ... and the like! And I think this adds pressure to what to say, and sometimes, it ends up being a 2nd rate affair.  I don't think this album stands up well to the first one, which is a documentary and bunch of snapshots of the time and place, complete with folks not listening, or giving a damn (I Talk to the Wind), all the way to the corruption of the child (Moonchild -- kinda taken off the AC novel) as the image of the corruption of the "hippie" girl, specially as seen with flowers in the hair ... so, we can look at another example, in the early film by The Incredible String Band, how folks laughed it all off as stupid and just stoned stuff. Because of the dope idea, there was no connection to the artistic form of the poetry Mike and Robin were doing. I guess the girls were just commodities for them ... sickening, considering how the ladies added so much to the music of the ISB.

I think I'm not alone in disagreeing that prog turned putrid, Mosh. Just looking at how KC expanded their approach and style with Lizard and Larks' Tongues In Aspic pretty much puts waste to that notion.

Edited by SteveG - April 17 2024 at 16:58

SteveG wrote: Prompted by Paul's 5 KC song thread, I've always felt that the album, while not as strong as it's predecessor, has many many positives, such the stunning title track, Keith Tippet's jazzy piano on many songs, and the fact that the band carried on after losing two key members. Your thoughts.