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Happy 50th Tales From Topographic Oceans!
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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 11 2024 at 14:41
Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

...
Rick Wakeman said that the album was a bit too drawn out and too much bleeding. It is...but that's what I like about it. 
...

Hi,

For someone that knows classical music history and has heard a lot of it, to say that something is drawn out and bleeds too much, would without a doubt, suggest that RW has never heard classical music for the past 600 years or so. That comment is off base, in regards to "interpretation" of many things, and to suggest that the wind only has one kind of movement, is just bizarre and more than likely a comment that would suggest he was not someone that knew what composing was really about beyond throwing notes on the staff, or just adding notes to his other fingers!

It's not like his own solo things are not drawn out ... with different keyboards doing the same kind of thing and solo .... and the bleeding? I think even the emperor would have said "too many notes" ... which really was more of a comment about the music not expressing something that was more "visible" and easier to "understand" rather than just hundreds of notes in so many minutes. RW would make the worst soundtrack music writer, because he has no "emotional feeling" beyond his curry and his fingers over playing any material! Can he eat that curry that fast? Wink


Edited by moshkito - March 11 2024 at 14:44
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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My favorite album of all time.
Any band.
Any genre.
Any era.
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Ah yes the elevator music version of CTTE... he added tetchily.
Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused?
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Cheers for 50 years of one of the greatest albums of all time! Beer
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The rules of Little Napoleon, cardboard cows, Rick Wakeman and the chicken curry, unbalanced compositions, between brilliant and boring ... after all those years a wet dream for prog discussions!
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TFTO has always been a desert island album for me. The composition is great, eschewing typical patterns. The sound Howe gets out of his Les Paul Studio is incredible, and in combination with Wakeman’s keyboard I feel like I’m diving on a Bahamian reef. 

The only thing I ever disliked about the original album is that the mastering was muddy. The Steven Wilson DVD remix, however, is revelatory, the clarity is exceptional, and the detail and thunder in Squiire’s bass playing knocks me out and makes my 2,700 watt subwoofer smile. 

I listen to a lot of symphonies, particularly Mahler, Bruckner, Scriabin, Shostakovich, etc., and TFTO provides the same level of satisfaction for me. This is such a unique album, and I’m extremely thankful that Yes had the vision to make it. I had only seen Ritual performed live until the Drama-TFTO tour of 2017 when I saw them in Pampano Beach. It was an exceptional concert.

It’s hard to believe the album is >50 years old, and I’ll still be playing it regularly 50 years from now when I’m 113.
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I got the album when I was first married and we lived in a cold, drafty house.  I had to make do with a space heater while I wrote.  I drank gin and tonics and TFTO was my constant companion on those cold days.

I never tired of it.
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Topographic Oceans lured me in when I was a young teenager and the album made a huge but unusual impression on me. Many snow storms and or snow blizzards in my area and I'm inside a warm house with a decent stereo system and just playing Topographic Oceans and watching the blizzard pound us. It definitely wasn't a cup of coffee with snowfall New Age fluff experience. It just felt good to hear it looking out of the window.

Rick Wakeman said that the album was a bit too drawn out and too much bleeding. It is...but that's what I like about it. I enjoy hearing Yes play something that's extensive. It's a mood swing that I have and they really don't capture that vibe on their other albums. "Awaken" and "Gates Of Delrium " are very extensive ..but the style of composition is very different from Topographic.

No...Topographic was a once in a lifetime deal...it was a experiment. Jon Anderson supposedly wanted to run the equipment off a generator and record Topographic Oceans in the forest. Sometimes when I'm halfway through listening to it ..I start thinking "What a strange album compared to the others" and that's the realization which affects me the most. For me it's like listening to a completely different side of Yes. I value that and historically it's fascinating how determined they were at completing an album like this.

Edited by Jacob Schoolcraft - March 06 2024 at 16:01
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ The problem here though is that a lot of rock and even prog fans didn't want this. The fact that Dark Side Of The Moon ruled showed that doing this sort of thing was already (in 1974) becoming more and more difficult to pull off. Personally I think ELP's Works Volume One album was even braver and bolder but no one cares about that!

Hi,

Part of the "progressive" movement, at the time, was that ... the fans ... did not control the music at that time, and many things were done that we appreciate a heck of a lot from it, and often go around saying that progressive music died, when the record companies came back en force with the Great Corporate Rape into the 80's when all those independent FM stations were bought out to have that independent and different music taken off the air ... which happened ... and today, it is STILL called "classic radio" ... and I'm tired of listening to some of that stuff for the 156th time ... c'mon ... when can you say enough is enough?

PF, to their credit, took their sound effects to their maximum conclusion, which was The Wall ... when all the "vignettes" (so to speak) became the story and carried the music, or if we like the music created the story. Both work.

In the early days, prior to the DSOTM thing, PF had sound effects running through between each piece, and I can not specify if there was a reason (setup some equipment parameters for example which were not as fast as today!), or just some fun ideas ... that eventually ate up the dragon! 

The big problem  has been the since 1990, with the advent of the Internet, the "fans" think they own the music and the artist, and they will kill artists for it. I will live and die for the artist, my friend, and you know that, just like I do all the other arts, and specially film.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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I think that side 3 is extremely underrated, granted, it's a rather dense inaccessible piece, but once it clicks, IT CLICKS! 

Some days it's even my favorite of the four sides. 
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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^You mean that part during 'Ritual' where Steve Howe does a bit of a Yes guitar medley, he definitely quotes 'Close to the Edge' 
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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I love the nods to previous works scattered like Easter eggs throughout the album.  I hear bits of "Close to the Edge" and "Siberian Khatru," for instance.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

It's sad that folks do not seem to consider it a "symphony" in 4 parts, which would better describe the whole work and perhaps give it a better standing, but it seems to me that the preference for rock music is to NOT do anything that is more "classical" in form, instead of being more song oriented.
I see it as a symphony in four parts. Sort of. There's just plenty of four movement symphonies I'd rather listen to. Not complaining. Many people love it, I'm not among them. it's not a problem. I'm perfectly happy that it exist for those who get more out of it than I do.

It's like a suites within a suite if that makes sense. A symphony of 4 movements, i see it that way, but i only ever listen to it all at once rarely
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

It's sad that folks do not seem to consider it a "symphony" in 4 parts, which would better describe the whole work and perhaps give it a better standing, but it seems to me that the preference for rock music is to NOT do anything that is more "classical" in form, instead of being more song oriented.
I see it as a symphony in four parts. Sort of. There's just plenty of four movement symphonies I'd rather listen to. Not complaining. Many people love it, I'm not among them. it's not a problem. I'm perfectly happy that it exist for those who get more out of it than I do.
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^no no, it needs both LPs, like The Lamb
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Man, I LOVE the ending.

So do I. Because it's over. Like other overlong rock outings, it is a grand 1 record album that unfortunately is strung out to a 2 record length. 
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Man, I LOVE the ending. The best way I've heard it described is its the musical interpretation of the 'Golden Hour' right after the sun sets. But not before its night
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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After completing both ELP's BSS and Yes' TFTO I have to say, Tales really left me wanting.
Wanting a shorter album and a better ending.
Of the first six Yes albums, I might have to put it around number six. Unhappy
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ The problem here though is that a lot of rock and even prog fans didn't want this. The fact that Dark Side Of The Moon ruled showed that doing this sort of thing was already (in 1974) becoming more and more difficult to pull off. ...
 

Hi,

I think that DSOTM succeeded because of the light show and combination of the band with the lights and the various films and bits. No other band was doing anything as adventurous and interesting, even though bands like Nektar had what was known as "Light Theater" by a man whose history in the annals of rock music is legendary. But, sadly enough, a lot of the "light show" thing had lost is fun, and folks were less interested in closing their eyes and tripping along, hoping to cheer for their favorite hit or piece of music. AND, it should be mentioned that PF was doing these in a glorious QUADRAPHONIC sound, that no one else was even trying, except maybe The Grateful Dead that had the best sound system of all bands EVER.

All in all, it was at this time that the "show" lost a lot of its design and ideas, and most bands just stuck to the worst lighting shows possible, not to mention the cheapest and to make it look like the music was better than it really was. In fact, it often hid how bad the music was!

But somethings stick to your imagination. Seeing Gentle Giant do an encore with all members switching roles, so everyone played drums, guitar, keyboards, you name it, for me made it all so much better. You knew the musicianship in GG was superior to a lot of bands, and was worth seeing. I do not know how many times they did that kind of ending to a show, but it was neat.

What brought "progressive" to the front was its incredible touch and the atmosphere created for that moment ... it was a veritable 2001 opening for many rock fans, a moment that you always remembered, specially if you were in LA and got to see the stuff at the Cinerama Dome and then the Aquarius (old) theater. (They were next to each other!).

A few years later, seeing Genesis, was boring. There was no "show" ... it was just an over done thing making it look like all the songs were majestic and important. The "important" part of the band left with PG, and he was able to continue with the thoughts and ideas he had mentioned in the MM interview about his leaving Genesis. He forgot the idea and concept and only did songs since then, and even today, it is grossly over rated and not really great or as important and valuable as things were at the time. 

TFTO, will likely be played by a Symphony in the future in its entirety and will still be appreciated. And hopefully the rock audience with no taste, will learn to appreciate music long after its time, as so many composers have enjoyed for many centuries. I don't think that "songs" will have as long a time span!


Edited by moshkito - December 09 2023 at 10:58
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ The problem here though is that a lot of rock and even prog fans didn't want this. The fact that Dark Side Of The Moon ruled showed that doing this sort of thing was already (in 1974) becoming more and more difficult to pull off. Personally I think ELP's Works Volume One album was even braver and bolder but no one cares about that!
I care !
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