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Liking Marillion, but hating Greta van Fleet
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GoldenNoseSlim View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 15 2023 at 00:16
Hi, 

I was thinking about this lately. 

Recently I have FINALLY managed to get into early Marillion. I do love Genesis albums from the Peter Gabriel era. 

The fact that they sound so much like those used to put me off. But this time, my brain was tricked into thinking "Well, turns out that there are more Genesis albums I didn't know about. Happy days!"

Someone on PA recommended Wobbler. Loved it, although they also sound quite a bit like early Genesis.

I feel the same way about, for example, Jesus & Mary Chain records and The Velvet Underground (think "Almost Famous") and even Oasis is alright with me even though they never bothered writing an original tune. :))

But, man, oh, man, do some bands like Greta van Fleet or Wolfmother annoy me. And I've tried giving them a fair shake too.

Having said that Led Zeppelin is my favorite band and a group that has flirted with prog I would say. 

Do I have a bias problem? LOL

And where do you stand on "clone bands"?
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I do enjoy some Jesus & Mary Chain. But although inspired by... they don't sound much like Velvet Underground to me. They got their own spin and feel distinctly 1980's in the 1980's and 1990's in the 1990's. I don't really have a problem with "clone bands" if the song material is strong enough. That said I'd much rather a band scome across like they are part of a movement of the past, like Kosmischer Laüfer kind of feel like they made all their music in Berlin/Düsseldorf/Germany ca. 1973-1978 - or Needledrop that remind me of early 1970's Canterbury Scene. They feel like an extention of a familiar approach to making music rather than being a being copy of a specific band (like the Wolfmother or Greta van Fleet I've heard). The only reason I don't care for the lion's share of the bands you mention, is because I don't find what they bring to the table memorable or interesting enough. So I choose the original(s) over the copy 10 out of 10 times.
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I don't think you have a bias problem. Greta Van Fleet and Wolfmother don't do much for me either LOL
I will say I like the German band Kingdom Come which was ridiculed because they sounded like Led Zeppelin. (And yet a few bands in the 21 century sound like Zeppelin and they've got no ridicule, I don't get it). Kingdom Come's 1991 album Hands of Time is one of my favorite albums. Big smile

Marillion never sounded exactly like Genesis, they had other influences in their music as well. And at some point those Genesis influences went away for good. 

The clone bands type don't bother  me, depends on the song-writing, performance, vocals. For example I've listened to my share of Dream Theater clones, some I disliked, but some I enjoyed. 

The Italian band The Watch was a Genesis clone, or shall I call it pastiche. But they starting doing their own thing at some point. Do check them out. Smile




Edited by Cristi - September 15 2023 at 03:35
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Points: 5353 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2023 at 02:48
I like Great Van Fleet but I feel in terms of retro rock vibin' it can't really compete with some of the best artsy modern retro prog acts, like Ring Van Mobius. It's super duper amazing when you confront it with other popular mainsteramish stuff though. To me Greta's always been retro rock on easy mode. :) But what's cool is that it can act like a gateway for many to delve into this sorta music and explore the top of the line prog shіt!


Edited by Hrychu - September 15 2023 at 02:50
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I think that Wobbler is considerably closer to Yes than to Genesis.
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Well good on you, son! Clap
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I think that many if not most of the "clone bands" (at least the good ones) only sound like their reference on the first listens. As you listen more and more, you start to appreciate their own character and the "clone feeling" fades away quite a bit.

For example the album "Somewhere but Yesterday" by Citizen Cain sounds very much like Gabriel-era Genesis, but now after many listens it is a favourite of mine.

The same with Fish-era Marillion, on first listen they sounded very much like Genesis, but now not anymore (to me at least).

Or Cathedral or Wobbler with respect to Yes.

Or Triumvirat with respect to ELP.

The existence of bands like The Darkness or Greta Van Fleet is positive at least in that they may awaken the interest of young people for classic Rock and make them discover the greats of the 70s.
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Points: 5353 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2023 at 13:37
Somewhere but Yesterday both does and doesn't do the Genesis thing. There are parts in it which sound nothing like Genesis to me and parts that bear almost a cover-level resemblance to said band. Besides, Cyrus' singing has some Gabriel-like qualities to his voice, but that voice is way more powerful and his "in character" singing or spoken word parts have so much more power and are better performed in terms of the acting.
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It is better to listen to Greta and/or WM ( they still exist ?) rather than soup/molasses offered by official/commercial radios. Rock no longer represents by far the best sales in music.He is far behind, dance , electro and pop mainstreams.
So, if a teenager listening for the first time to LZ ever tells you that they look/sound very much like GVF or WM , don’t be offended because he is on the right track

Edited by mellotronwave - September 15 2023 at 17:29
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Points: 27956 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2023 at 20:42
I'm not sure about the whole clone band thing. There is just music. The Darkness were an asbolute hoot and were copying Queen I guess , Muse have been accused of the same thing quite often but would anyone think that Muse and The Darkness are alike??!

Lots of so called Genesis clones out there especially IQ who are one of my favourite bands, but they kinda of represent a path that Genesis could have taken but decided not to. They took up the batten. Wobbler and Yes are similar but I guess we would rather Yes were doing what Wobbler do now!
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^ Yes a lot of the "clone band"-thing is created by rock journalists and general a****le behaviour by people who seem to enjoy trying to hurt certain bands with certain sounds. I'm no saint myself, and probably been simliarly dismissive here on these boards at times. And while I'm not the biggest fan out there (because I'm not the world's biggest fan of Yes, I suppose) I surely prefer Wobbler over the four last decades of music by Yes.

I'd rather have a band with the feel, energy, musicality and groove of late 1960's Stones, early 1970's Tull, 1980's Metallica etc... over the current touring and album releasing version of any of them.

Btw: I have no issues with any of these ageing rockers still touring and recording. They've done this practically all their lives, so why not keep doing it until your heart stops. It' just that I personally choose their peak era. Most of them have sort of become their own clone bands anyway, haven't they?     

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Points: 27956 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2023 at 03:55
I thought that about Yes a long time ago but personel changes helped for a while (until 1983 mayube) then after that they've had no direction. I prefer almost anything by Glass Hammer over anything Yes did post 70's. Albums liek Fragile and Relayer are admittedly untouchable but we can't just sit around listening to the same 5 albums ad nauseum (or maybe we can LOL)
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Originally posted by GoldenNoseSlim GoldenNoseSlim wrote:

Do I have a bias problem? LOL

And where do you stand on "clone bands"?

I do not think you have a bias, but more like an understanding between having an inspired sound from a band and being a rip off. Essentially speaking, Marillion, at least in the Fish era is a band that took the Genesis sound they knew and loved, and decided to give it their own spin, which evolved into something a lot more original by Misplaced Childhood. Greta Van Fleet, to put it bluntly is merely a group of wannabe glam rockers in ugly mullets claiming they are reviving rock (even though rock never really died anyways lol) and playing Led Zeppelin parody songs.
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No you have no problem, I do not like GretaVanFleet at all!
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I do enjoy some Jesus & Mary Chain. But although inspired by... they don't sound much like Velvet Underground to me. They got their own spin and feel distinctly 1980's in the 1980's and 1990's in the 1990's. I don't really have a problem with "clone bands" if the song material is strong enough. That said I'd much rather a band scome across like they are part of a movement of the past, like Kosmischer Laüfer kind of feel like they made all their music in Berlin/Düsseldorf/Germany ca. 1973-1978 - or Needledrop that remind me of early 1970's Canterbury Scene. They feel like an extention of a familiar approach to making music rather than being a being copy of a specific band (like the Wolfmother or Greta van Fleet I've heard). The only reason I don't care for the lion's share of the bands you mention, is because I don't find what they bring to the table memorable or interesting enough. So I choose the original(s) over the copy 10 out of 10 times.

The Jesus & Mary Chain is my favorite non-prog band. Wink  
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I don't know who Greta van Fleet is, but I'm sure I would have heard of her if she was in Marillion. Embarrassed
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Originally posted by GoldenNoseSlim GoldenNoseSlim wrote:

Hi, 
...
Do I have a bias problem? LOL
...
And where do you stand on "clone bands"?

Hi,

This is one issue with "tastes" and us specifying that we like one thing and we don't like another. In the end, that's unfair to the person/musician who worked what they did. Their expression, and ability to bring it to us, is a gift, whether we like it or not, and we should not "deprive" them of that ability.

Similarly to your comment is this ... does your bias extend to other music, like classical, jazz, you name it ... because if it does, then you are NOT listening to music. You are simply listening to the 5 or 10 things you like, and you will soon forget them!

You either like MUSIC or you don't. I admit that growls and metal are not my specialty but I don't have the heart to dislike them ... that's an important expression, like it or not!

Clones! Weird ... so all the orchestras and various groups playing classical music that is hundreds of years old are "clones"? It might be too soon to bring about many works that some of us were not around to see, or hear, but to not appreciate the beauty of the music and how it stands up, for you to learn about a different expression ... and you call it "clone"? Methinks you dislike music ... because you can't do it, or have it inside?

Please evaluate your discussion of music, now ... and remember that not liking Stravinsky or Beethoven has nothing to do with the music ... has to do with you! So liking/disliking something is, generally, very overrated ... it's just weird to see folks posting on it.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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