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Your Top 10 Metal Albums of All-Time

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 14:14
All rock [L. Richard, Elvis, Beatles] comes from the blues and all Heavy Blues [Faces, Cream, Beck/Stewart] comes from the blues and all Heavy Rock [Zeppelin,Sabbath] comes from the Blues and all Heavy Metal [Priest,Scorpions,Ozzy] comes from the Blues and therefore all earrly Progressive Metal [Maiden,Voivod,Yngwie] must come from the Blues.   

But again I ask; why did a simple form of Black American culture music which became a white kid's garage jam become so fully varied & iterated ? ---


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 14:39
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Kill Em ALl the beginning of metal? OMG. Are you serious?
Metallica didn't even release the first thrash much less metal.
Both Sodom and Holy Moses released thrash metal before Metallica.
Bands like Sir Lord Baltimore were designated heavy metal as early as 1970.
Much heavier than Sabbath, Zeppelin and DP.

Kill Em All came out in 1983 the same year as Hellhammber's blackened thrash.
As far as NWOBHM most certainly metal, the first album came from Quartz in 1977.
Several bands jumped on board and led to Iron Maiden's 1980 debut. NOT hard rock anymore.
Motorhead was clearly speed metal as was Running Wild, Atomkraft and Venom well before Metallica.
So your claim is incorrect.


I did not mean this one album in particular. I mean Kill 'em All as one very well known (and over-hyped) album that was part of a new wave of metal which emerged from the NWOBHM. I'm sure there were underground bands that were quite heavy in the 70s. Again, I am saying that there was this early phase in the 70s that lead to the NWOBHM which then led to a third phase of metal in the 80s. With each phase the bands turned farther away from Rock/Blues, and I would say that on albums like Kill 'em All, there was finally sufficient difference that Metal could be said to have become a new main genre. 

As for Motörhead having been speed metal - yes, historically that is correct. By the historical definition, Speed King by Deep Purple is Speed Metal. Having grown up in the 80s, that sounds ridiculous to me. It only makes sense when you accept the division between classic/proto/early metal, all of which was still rooted in Rock and which Speed Metal was part of, and modern metal, which then had its own bands that played fast and were called Power Metal, and sometimes also Speed Metal.

Like it or not, but musically there is a striking difference between most post-NWOBHM metal bands and classic bands of the 70s that were authentically called "... Metal".

Of course you can put it all under one umbrella if you insist, but that becomes quite confusing, and as I pointed out, not even metal-archives.com do it. Or you make some sort of division between classic (rock-based) and modern (metal-based), as I am suggesting. It's up to you Smile

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:


70s heavier rock is early metal. I call it first wave metal.
Doom metal is metal too and Black Sabbath fit the bill perfectly.
Yeah, 70s hard rock and heavy metal are very difficult to distinguish but there were some metal bands then.


Exactly. this "first wave metal" was still "just" heavy rock. Some really awesome releases, one of my absolute favorite albums of all time are among them (e.g. Deep Purple - Machine Head). But still firmly rooted in Rock.

Yes, Doom Metal is metal, too - but on the Sabbath debut only one track is Doom Metal, and still rooted in Rock to a great extent. 

I see these 70s hard rock albums as Rock. The release title "Deep Purple IN ROCK" is a clue Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 14:46
Citing Metallica as the first serious break from trad. Metal is a very reasonable assertion--  Some here will recall member Certified's conclusion that it was this band that broke from the "Swing" of the Blues itself ~ the rhythmic basis of most Rock music ~ giving modern Metal an approach that was significantly different .


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 14:52
I have considered metal to be a form of rock. A form of rock that grew out of classic blues-based hard rock.. in a way it could be called post-rock, and then post-metal could be called post-post rock. I once was told that metal has nothing to do with rock, which I thought bizarre. I wonder if any thing metal developed which has no rock roots. Of course earlier metal bands influenced later metal bands, and perhaps some stuff that sounds metal could have come directly out of, say, a natural evolution of Chinese Opera rather than a metal take on Chinese Opera.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 14:56
^ LOL  I like that tridimensional thinking
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stressed Cheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 16:01
One thing that complicates things a little I think is that between Black Sabbath's early stuff and Sad Wings of Destiny, there really isn't anything that's widely accepted as metal to my knowledge. That's a gap of half a decade. Ok, we can thank Gull Records that Rocka Rolla turned out that tame, but still. Compare that to most genres, where 5 years after the first widely accepted album you might already be in decline (the bulk of classic prog rock was released within years of ITCOTCK).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 16:13
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I have considered metal to be a form of rock. A form of rock that grew out of classic blues-based hard rock.. in a way it could be called post-rock, and then post-metal could be called post-post rock. I once was told that metal has nothing to do with rock, which I thought bizarre. I wonder if any thing metal developed which has no rock roots. Of course earlier metal bands influenced later metal bands, and perhaps some stuff that sounds metal could have come directly out of, say, a natural evolution of Chinese Opera rather than a metal take on Chinese Opera.

All metal is a form of rock, of course. Just like all rock (and metal) is a form of rhythm and blues. That is, if you go by the principle that any style that arose from an earlier style *is* still that "parent" style.

I just think that for the sake of describing the music in a useful way, it can make sense to sometimes break this chain of stylistic inheritance and say that some new style is now sufficiently different from its roots that it can be seen as a separate main genre. Doesn't mean that it came from nothing, just that it is so radically different that it would be confusing to see it as a subgenre.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 17:42
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Kill Em ALl the beginning of metal? OMG. Are you serious?
Metallica didn't even release the first thrash much less metal.
Both Sodom and Holy Moses released thrash metal before Metallica.
Bands like Sir Lord Baltimore were designated heavy metal as early as 1970.
Much heavier than Sabbath, Zeppelin and DP.

Kill Em All came out in 1983 the same year as Hellhammber's blackened thrash.
As far as NWOBHM most certainly metal, the first album came from Quartz in 1977.
Several bands jumped on board and led to Iron Maiden's 1980 debut. NOT hard rock anymore.
Motorhead was clearly speed metal as was Running Wild, Atomkraft and Venom well before Metallica.
So your claim is incorrect.


I did not mean this one album in particular. I mean Kill 'em All as one very well known (and over-hyped) album that was part of a new wave of metal which emerged from the NWOBHM. I'm sure there were underground bands that were quite heavy in the 70s. Again, I am saying that there was this early phase in the 70s that lead to the NWOBHM which then led to a third phase of metal in the 80s. With each phase the bands turned farther away from Rock/Blues, and I would say that on albums like Kill 'em All, there was finally sufficient difference that Metal could be said to have become a new main genre.

As far as Kill Em All POPULARIZING a more extreme sound in metal then i agree with you totally. Metallica did indeed bring extreme metal to the masses which allowed the gazillion other bands to follow.

As for Motörhead having been speed metal - yes, historically that is correct. By the historical definition, Speed King by Deep Purple is Speed Metal. Having grown up in the 80s, that sounds ridiculous to me. It only makes sense when you accept the division between classic/proto/early metal, all of which was still rooted in Rock and which Speed Metal was part of, and modern metal, which then had its own bands that played fast and were called Power Metal, and sometimes also Speed Metal.

I've never heard anyone call anything from Deep Purple speed metal. I wouldn't call anything from DP metal at all. THEY were a hard rock band with prog influences. Speed metal started with Motorhead and was ramped up with bands like Venom. All those other subgenres didn't emerge until the 80s.

Like it or not, but musically there is a striking difference between most post-NWOBHM metal bands and classic bands of the 70s that were authentically called "... Metal".

Yes of course but my point is that the term HEAVY METAL referred to bands like Sir Lord Baltimore, Budgie and other heavier bands that were harder, faster and heavier than solely hard rock bands like Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Uriah Heep. While the distinctions are often blurred with most 70s heavier bands because they hosted some tracks that are now considered metal and some that are now considered hard rock as well as other tracks that were neither but just classic rock. The term was invented in the 70s and applies to those earlier bands. Just because more extreme bands came later doesn't detract from the fact that the term applied and still does to the first wave of heavy metal bands. On RYM most 70s acts are labeled both HEAVY METAL and HARD ROCK precisely because they usually dabbled on both sides of the fence. It wasn't until the NWOBHM where the hard rock was replaced by a consistent metal sound.

Of course you can put it all under one umbrella if you insist, but that becomes quite confusing, and as I pointed out, not even metal-archives.com do it. Or you make some sort of division between classic (rock-based) and modern (metal-based), as I am suggesting. It's up to you Smile

No it's not up to me. I'm going by what has been recognized as the standard classification system. I didn't make any of this up, i'm merely going by what has been deemed the proper terminology and what continues to be by most.

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:


70s heavier rock is early metal. I call it first wave metal.
Doom metal is metal too and Black Sabbath fit the bill perfectly.
Yeah, 70s hard rock and heavy metal are very difficult to distinguish but there were some metal bands then.


Exactly. this "first wave metal" was still "just" heavy rock. Some really awesome releases, one of my absolute favorite albums of all time are among them (e.g. Deep Purple - Machine Head). But still firmly rooted in Rock.

Yes, Doom Metal is metal, too - but on the Sabbath debut only one track is Doom Metal, and still rooted in Rock to a great extent.

That's my point exactly. Many of the 70s bands were BOTH heavy metal bands and hard rock bands at the same time depending on the track.

I see these 70s hard rock albums as Rock. The release title "Deep Purple IN ROCK" is a clue Wink

IN ROCK referred to the fact the band was carved in stone on the cover. It tells nothing of the music inside! It also signaled a dropping of the orchestral prog shtick and a move into a more mainstream rock sound. My favorite album by them for sure.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 17:46
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I have considered metal to be a form of rock. A form of rock that grew out of classic blues-based hard rock.. in a way it could be called post-rock, and then post-metal could be called post-post rock. I once was told that metal has nothing to do with rock, which I thought bizarre. I wonder if any thing metal developed which has no rock roots. Of course earlier metal bands influenced later metal bands, and perhaps some stuff that sounds metal could have come directly out of, say, a natural evolution of Chinese Opera rather than a metal take on Chinese Opera.

All metal is a form of rock, of course. Just like all rock (and metal) is a form of rhythm and blues. That is, if you go by the principle that any style that arose from an earlier style *is* still that "parent" style.

I just think that for the sake of describing the music in a useful way, it can make sense to sometimes break this chain of stylistic inheritance and say that some new style is now sufficiently different from its roots that it can be seen as a separate main genre. Doesn't mean that it came from nothing, just that it is so radically different that it would be confusing to see it as a subgenre.  



Your views are a little all or nothing for me. All metal is derived from rock for sure but not all rock or metal is a form of rhythm and blues. Sure both styles started out that way but Krautrock in the 70s made it a point to ditch the American influences and create something totally UN-R&B only with rock instrumentation. The first form of post-rock if you will. Likewise with metal, Judas Priest launched a heavier style of metal that ditched the blues as the primary underpinning of metal compositions. Many bands have completely moved beyond any early influences and the only thing that remains is the instrumentation itself.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 01:00
^ I'm just trying to use these labels in a consistent way. "Metal", in its essence, stands for a certain way to structure music that is different from (or sometimes even diametrically opposed to) the way things are done in "Rock" music, and it has to do with (but is not limited to) a rejection of Blues/RnB. It began in the 70s, gained more momentum with the NWOBHM, and then came into full bloom in the 1980s. That's just the objective facts, and I suspect that most participants in this thread agree. Where we differ is where/when we would draw the line between releases that are still in the "Rock" domain (with some Metal traits) and those that are in the "Metal" domain (with some Rock traits), or whether we would even want to make such a distinction. And that's a really subjective call. Ultimately the music is more important than the labels of course. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 01:04
I think it also matters how someone got to know the music. Those who discovered Rock/Metal first through albums of the 80s and then later also discovered the 70s might be more inclined to think of the heavy 70s albums as Hard Rock, Heavy Rock or Heavy Blues, while those that were in their teens in the 70s and experienced them in the correct chronological sequence (first the 70s, then the 80s) might be more adamant that these 70s albums are also "full-blown" Metal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 03:47
These 10 are up there for me but not absolute.

Metallica - Master of Puppets
Queensryche - Operation: Mindcrime
Corrosion of Conformity - Blind
Tool - Lateralus
Iron Maiden - Number of the Beast
Motorhead - Orgasmatron
Anthrax - Sound of White Noise
Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Warrior Soul - God, Drugs and the New Republic
Megadeth - Countdown to Extinction
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 03:52
Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

Anthrax - Sound of White Noise
Interesting choice, this is one underrated album! Tongue


Edited by Cristi - July 17 2023 at 03:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 03:57
I'm not much of a metal fan, so I won't be able to make a top 10. But I really do enjoy Master of Puppets.

In the less serious department, I have a strong fascination with the band Beatallica. They are nothing less than hilarious. In the even less serious department, there is a Danish band called Red Warszawa who play - well - a kind of metal... (the title translates into "Hurray, the school is burning")




Edited by The Anders - July 17 2023 at 03:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 04:17
There's so many awesome metal albums. Here's a new list, this time only containing albums I don't recall having been mentioned yet:

- The Northern Sanctuary (2016) by Witherscape
- Primal Power Addiction (2002) by Heaven's Cry
- Praises To The War Machine (2008) by Warrel Dane
- Underworld (2003) by Adagio
- Monotheist (2006) by Celtic Frost
- Act III (1990) by Death Angel
- Painkiller (1990) by Judas Priest
- Esc (2015) by Zierler
- Meliora (2015) by Ghost
- Gothic Kabbalah (2007) by Therion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 04:44
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

70s heavier rock is early metal. I call it first wave metal.

Okay, it seems still to me this is the best way of viewing it, and I think now I'd include a couple of Budgie albums in this early Metal.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 05:31
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

One thing that complicates things a little I think is that between Black Sabbath's early stuff and Sad Wings of Destiny, there really isn't anything that's widely accepted as metal to my knowledge. That's a gap of half a decade. Ok, we can thank Gull Records that Rocka Rolla turned out that tame, but still. Compare that to most genres, where 5 years after the first widely accepted album you might already be in decline (the bulk of classic prog rock was released within years of ITCOTCK).

Concerning the years 1972-75, RYM labels at least several albums as Heavy Metal which can be seen in this chart: 



Edited by David_D - July 17 2023 at 05:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 06:26
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Kill 'em All could very well be the beginning of "Metal", while the 70s laid the foundations with their "Heavy Metal" albums:

Rock/Blues
->
Heavy Rock/Blues / Hard Rock
-> 
New Wave of British Heavy Metal
->
(Modern) Metal
-> 
Thrash Metal / Death Metal / Black Metal / ...



Kill Em ALl the beginning of metal? OMG. Are you serious?
Metallica didn't even release the first thrash much less metal.
Both Sodom and Holy Moses released thrash metal before Metallica.
But come on a couple of primitively recorded german cassette demos weren't game-changers like Kill 'Em All was. Your revisionist way of thinking is nice for shining a light on overlooked bands and stuff, but not helpful in understanding music history. Era defining albums is rarely about being the very first, but the first that was widely listened to and the most influential. As with In the Court... or Bitches Brew before - for Prog and Fusion. Anyway I just wrote what I mean when I state just "metal" - and don't specify any further like with "heavy metal". If someone tells me "I listen to a lot of metal" I will associate with another kind of metal than someone saying "I listen to a lot of heavy metal".
-
Imo there is a before and after Kill ‘Em All. To those who heard it, it sounded harder and more aggressive than anything before. And as it actually sold a few copies - it made the biggest waves. But there’s no before and after Witching Metal (or Satan's Angel), as hardly anyone knew of its existence back then. Just like In the Court... is much better than anything by The Nice - Kill 'Em All is obviously of a much higher than quality than those earlier, thrashy demos too.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - July 17 2023 at 09:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 06:34
I'm going to defer to our colleagues at Metal Music Archives who have Heavy Metal including Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Budgie, Rainbow, Judas Priest, Sir Lord Baltimore, & Scorpions all for the 70's. That's good enough for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2023 at 06:39
^ And their opinion differs slightly from the folks at metal-archives.com. The emerging picture that is consistent with most viewpoints is that there were different phases of metal: 

1. a classic, pioneering phase in the 70s
2. the NWOBHM in the late 70s and early 80s
3. "modern" metal in the early 80s and beyond

All we're basically arguing about is what to call them, and which albums qualify - which will be an eternal discussion LOL
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