Genesis (Gabriel era): Magical Music

There definitely is a special quality to those early albums, magic is as good as any word to describe it. Or Alchemy. Its a sum of all the parts and how these interacted.. the musicians, the studios and the way stuff was recorded, the fervent fan base in the UK and in Europe, the atmosphere of the early live shows, the spirit of the times.. Quite a few bands of the time reached this point of creative intensity but (for me at least) Genesis 1970-1975 held it most consistently and most intensely. Or at least it spoke more to my heart and soul than any of their contemporaries. 

I do think those are the best albums, yet I'm not sure it was Gabriel himself the one fully responsible... I would think it was a team effort, and it was the times, for once they got to The Lamb, which I understand was more strongly dominated by Gabriel, the sound does seem to change somewhat, shorter songs and with less instrumental passages... and even though that album is very much beloved, I find it a step below than what they had been doing before... and then even more, Gabriel's solo discography, as far as I know (I don't really know much of it) is nothing like those 70's Genesis albums. Unfortunatley, if I remember correctly, all songs from that era are credited to the whole band, so it's not easy to know who was dominant in the writing of the songs... perhaps there are more knowledgeable people around here that would know better (I have the impression it's always been Tony Banks the one that contributes more to the direction of the band, not Gabriel nor Collins).

Necrotica wrote: Dellinger wrote: I do think those are the best albums, yet I'm not sure it was Gabriel himself the one fully responsible... I would think it was a team effort, and it was the times, for once they got to The Lamb, which I understand was more strongly dominated by Gabriel, the sound does seem to change somewhat, shorter songs and with less instrumental passages... and even though that album is very much beloved, I find it a step below than what they had been doing before... and then even more, Gabriel's solo discography, as far as I know (I don't really know much of it) is nothing like those 70's Genesis albums. Unfortunatley, if I remember correctly, all songs from that era are credited to the whole band, so it's not easy to know who was dominant in the writing of the songs... perhaps there are more knowledgeable people around here that would know better (I have the impression it's always been Tony Banks the one that contributes more to the direction of the band, not Gabriel nor Collins). I definitely agree with most of this. Also, I think Steve Hackett had just as much of a role in the band's prog era as Gabriel did, especially when combining the hard rock elements with the soft, folky pastoral ones. A prime example is the contrast between Get 'Em Out by Friday and Horizons on the Foxtrot album; one song is more aggressive and intense, whereas the latter is a beautiful classically-inclined finger-picked composition.  While a lot of people seem to idolize Gabriel more than Hackett on here, I think the latter presented the clearest through-line in terms of Genesis' change in sound/quality over the years. After all, he was still involved in the proggiest post-Gabriel albums before the band made the jump to a poppier direction

definitely agree with most of what both of these two guys have posted…

O666 wrote: Is there anyone feeling same?!

geekfreak wrote: Necrotica wrote: Dellinger wrote: I do think those are the best albums, yet I'm not sure it was Gabriel himself the one fully responsible... I would think it was a team effort, and it was the times, for once they got to The Lamb, which I understand was more strongly dominated by Gabriel, the sound does seem to change somewhat, shorter songs and with less instrumental passages... and even though that album is very much beloved, I find it a step below than what they had been doing before... and then even more, Gabriel's solo discography, as far as I know (I don't really know much of it) is nothing like those 70's Genesis albums. Unfortunatley, if I remember correctly, all songs from that era are credited to the whole band, so it's not easy to know who was dominant in the writing of the songs... perhaps there are more knowledgeable people around here that would know better (I have the impression it's always been Tony Banks the one that contributes more to the direction of the band, not Gabriel nor Collins). I definitely agree with most of this. Also, I think Steve Hackett had just as much of a role in the band's prog era as Gabriel did, especially when combining the hard rock elements with the soft, folky pastoral ones. A prime example is the contrast between Get 'Em Out by Friday and Horizons on the Foxtrot album; one song is more aggressive and intense, whereas the latter is a beautiful classically-inclined finger-picked composition.  While a lot of people seem to idolize Gabriel more than Hackett on here, I think the latter presented the clearest through-line in terms of Genesis' change in sound/quality over the years. After all, he was still involved in the proggiest post-Gabriel albums before the band made the jump to a poppier direction  definitely agree with most of what both of these two guys have posted…

Me too!!😎

O666 wrote: Necrotica wrote: Dellinger wrote: I do think those are the best albums, yet I'm not sure it was Gabriel himself the one fully responsible... I would think it was a team effort, and it was the times, for once they got to The Lamb, which I understand was more strongly dominated by Gabriel, the sound does seem to change somewhat, shorter songs and with less instrumental passages... and even though that album is very much beloved, I find it a step below than what they had been doing before... and then even more, Gabriel's solo discography, as far as I know (I don't really know much of it) is nothing like those 70's Genesis albums. Unfortunatley, if I remember correctly, all songs from that era are credited to the whole band, so it's not easy to know who was dominant in the writing of the songs... perhaps there are more knowledgeable people around here that would know better (I have the impression it's always been Tony Banks the one that contributes more to the direction of the band, not Gabriel nor Collins). I definitely agree with most of this. Also, I think Steve Hackett had just as much of a role in the band's prog era as Gabriel did, especially when combining the hard rock elements with the soft, folky pastoral ones. A prime example is the contrast between Get 'Em Out by Friday and Horizons on the Foxtrot album; one song is more aggressive and intense, whereas the latter is a beautiful classically-inclined finger-picked composition.  While a lot of people seem to idolize Gabriel more than Hackett on here, I think the latter presented the clearest through-line in terms of Genesis' change in sound/quality over the years. After all, he was still involved in the proggiest post-Gabriel albums before the band made the jump to a poppier direction  Hi. Completely agreed. I dont know why most of Gabriel fans think like this. I cant think about Suppers Ready without Hackett. He wrote lyrics with gabriel . Perhaps some people hunt with Gabriel performance

I guess another thing to consider about who was more important for their classic 70's sound is, who is the one that has been touring those songs lately? And actually, the only one who has done so since the 70's ended?

richardh wrote: There is undoubtedly some serious genius going into those early albums , wildly creative and off the wall at times but brimming with ideas. Its not that mysterious though when you consider that Banks,Gabriel and Hackett are all incredible writers. Gradually that peeled off over the years. For me Hackett is still one of the greatest and had produced some fabulous albums in the last 10-20 years especially. Banks, no idea what he's up to nowadays and I've barely haven't heard anything from Gabriel since the 90's release Us.

Absolutely

The early Genesis with Gabriel was definitely magical . Those particular albums 1970-1975 kept me wondering if it wasn't a whole lot of careful planning.

Tony Banks bought a Mellotron, but he seriously didn't want Genesis sounding like King Crimson. My personal listening experience of early Genesis records for many years..leaves me with the impression that the band was careful not to sound like other bands. The bands they respected..such as King Crimson, Yes, Rare Bird, Family, Yes, The Nice...however Family Music In A Doll's House captures a style that three years later surfaced on Trespass. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but listen to Music In A Doll's House and see if you can hear the foundation of aspects to Genesis music.

According to several documentaries Tony Banks, Mike Rutherford, and Peter Gabriel were experienced writers and Phil Collins and Steve Hackett were junior members who basically didn't write at all..but added good ideas to the writing. I also get the impression that Collins and Hackett were seasoned type players which may have set the other members butts on fire in certain situations...so it was a healthy competition between the five of them.

By the time Steve Hackett stepped up as a writer he was denied his piece "Please Don't Touch" for the Wind And Wuthering album. I've tried to imagine that piece on Wind And Wuthering and it's difficult. Possibly if it were...it could have made the album more dark and less romantic. The rhythm pattern of "Please Don't Touch" was similar to "Wot Gorilla " which did in fact appear on the album. It's difficult to say how or why these decisions were made. In the early days when Gabriel was the vocalist they all seemed to be working together quite well. Collins and Hackett coming up with ideas to add to the writing of Rutherford, Banks, and Gabriel. It is possible that because of the restrictions that those early albums turned out to be magical .

Edited by Jacob Schoolcraft - January 30 2023 at 17:27