Exclusion of a brazilian band

This is a request to exclude from PA a group that I truly enjoy. Quinteto Armorial. It doesn't have nothing to do with prog rock, or progressive music. The instrumentation of Quinteto Armorial, on all of its four albums, is based on our traditional north-west culture, very specific of Brazil. The compositions are structured on classical music and/or north-east traditional folk music, it doesn't have any approach to blues, rock, pop music or jazz. Practically no soloing is present.

I understand that some folks may be a lot impressed and amused by their musicality, and because of that consider that it has similarities on geniality and richness found on many prog rock works. But this can also be said about some jazz works, some blues works, and so on.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think the "exclusion" argument was OP trying to get the band taken off the site. But I can't think of any band who's been taken off the database, to be honest - maybe Katatonia? But then they were reinstated with The Fall of Hearts 

Even if I can think of a couple of bands that should not be here on PA, I would never request their exclusion. 

I don't know what exactly to think, except that the person making the request, obviously thinks that the music by Quinteto Armorial, is a lot more aligned with classical elements than it is with popular music, and I'm going to state ... so what? Like Keith Emerson, and so many other "greats" of the Progressive Music area also were, it didn't stop them from expressing themselves.

For all the hoopla, the material on "Do Romance..." by the Quinteto Armorial is more aligned with pop music, or maybe it should be stated as street music, because it is done in parts and pieces that do not even connect to each other, which is one of the great elements of classical music, which at least one album (Do Romance) does not show at all ... when it simply shows a bunch of songs.

I was familiar with this attitude within the academic world, and it is something that bothers me, because in the end, it is about excluding new works and making sure that they preserve the pre-defined areas of the arts that they consider important, and in general, anything having to do with "street this or that" is not considered "composed" or "pre-defined" and therefore not a valid piece of art or the discussion within the artistic masters considered by so many academics. You might as well tell Pollack that his pissing on a painting and then selling it is not art and his attitude excludes him from the art world.

The very folks that "discuss" and teach stuff about my own father are all like this. And they don't like to be shown that their opinion is ridiculous, exclusive, and often stupid, disregarding new trends in the arts, which so many have made use of for so many years. As an example, they turned their noses and made sure to ignore the issue of the YGDRASIL JOURNAL OF POETIC ARTS that I issued some of my dad's poetry and some translations ... and the comment I got from one person was that I was not an academic to have the ability to put together something like that! And my older sister, now in charge (as far as I know) of dad's work won't even bother to pick up the paper and read it ... I guess the paper is not sacred and purified with the academic perfume and words ... for her to even consider looking at it ... well, we don't need her ... the National Library of Canada has it in their catalog, and honestly, to me, this is a great honor, not the one of the family not giving a poop about anything except the "GOD" .... and the children meant nothing, including their work, if they were ever allowed to have any ... including a sister that has painted for 50 years, and still is not appreciated, and no one has one of her paintings in their wall ... to give you an idea. I do, btw.

I find the request silly, and probably dishonest. It, likely, meant well, but in general, it is a sideswipe at a lot of modern music, Progressive or not, for their ability and attempts to create something different, and with different instruments, ways and means ... specially when it has not been previously "defined" by the academic world that knows about all the arts, but can not ever accept the modern works and where they fit in the pantheon of all the arts. 

I might have replied ... that is your opinion, but many others thought otherwise. But in all honesty, if a band wants to exclude itself from PA, let them ... the less folks listen to it, and the folks that will buy Quinteto Armorial's music can not possibly be intelligent enough to hear something else, specially "progressive music". It will only hurt their very own sales, when you spend your time making sure less and less folks will purchase this ... or worse ... this is a professor making sure that everyone buys the book/album of which he is a part and owns and is the main "text" for the course!

Send them away ... good riddance! We need people that appreciate music, not people that think the divisions are so hard in stone, that no one can possibly enjoy them unless they have all the academic this and that for it! It's just a horrible and sad affair for all arts, and their ability to survive. The 20th century in the arts was all about the de-construction of the concepts of everything ... and yet ... here we are ... sticking everything to a concept, and basically saying that any other concept is crap.

I'm sorry ... that is out of line! Classically minded or not ... sheep dip ... now we have to dump Gryphon because they classical and not pop/rock laden crap!

So, your explanations made me understand better the reasons why QA has been included on PA, and I appreciate your response. However, I believe it's important to highlight more clearly QA's style on PA's description of the band.

I don't have any academic background on music, you commented to a post of a common guy that loves prog rock. Very simple. If you have any specialized knowledge on music and/or on art, it would be a pleasure to know more about it.

Earnestly, Ary.

Hi,

I think, that we are all thorough listeners, although there are times when I question that thoroughness when it seems like too many groups are included because "they sound like" ... and that is a serious problem.

IF, we look at music history, or really any art history, what is remembered is always that one thing that changed the scenery and gave us something else. 

Today, however, with the advent of RECORDING and DISTRIBUTION we all have a chance to hear a heck of a lot more than 75 years ago, when not even 1/10th (maybe even less!) was not only recorded but only "known" by an academic world that had studied the many scores that are found for a lot of things ... there was no "recording" per se, and when the LP came alive, it is when the ability of everyone to hear these things became an incredible thought and idea. Today, many fans, don't even know or realize there is a "history" and they are more interested in their favorites and how they dress and act, than they are the music itself ... and this is a problem, that I think could be remedied in school with courses in the arts, but we know that American schools do not want to put together courses on any of the arts, because in the end, ALL OF THEM are "liberal" and "anti-establishment", a sentiment that hurts the history of any of the arts! And will only make a lot of the future "without" the arts, which for me means more war, more religion and more stupidity!

QA deserves to be here, even though they are more on the folk side of things than they are "progressive", and at first listen, I immediately flashed on a lot of English/Irish/Welsh and some European bands that did the same thing. That QA is considered "composed" and classical, and not something that would be looked at at (basically) just street folks playing their music as history suggests about a lot of that folk music, is another story, and for me scary ... even Mozart had to go to the bars to get away from the stuck up court and academic side of music, which he was found to have a lot of it (how many violin concertos?) but in the end, the material of his we remember is the one that was totally outside the styles that the court and academia were devoted to ... and I like to joke that it is just like the King's comment about "too many notes" with everyone immediately agreeing. A perfect comment about how so many people do not actually listen to music, because their minds, ears and hearts are on something they know ... not something new or different.

Again, this is not an easy discussion, and I don't even know that I am making it worse. Based on my experience in the arts (literature mostly -- Portuguese, Brazilian and Spanish Literature) let me end this with one sad statement ... when my dad died, our library was huge, and in its listings the graduate students at UCSB had found that there were at least 500 writers in Brazilian and Portuguese Literature that were not even indexed anywhere. I don't know that 40 years later these have been index'ed or just dumped ... we know how much music, paintings and art that has happened to ... but to me, that was one thing that was sad ... the complete disrespect and care for the human spirit! AND, by an academic world on top of that!

I don't want to see that ever again, and even though PA may not be "perfect" there is a lot here to be said for the effort of many wonderful folks that take the time and effort to hear many things ... yeah, for me some are too commercial for my ears, but all the same they have a right to be heard and mentioned!

Never take away that chance and opportunity ... your children are the ones that can gain from it ... and their future since we will be long gone!

Obrigado ... o meu Portugues nao e muito bom e it has fallen apart in the last 50 years without anyone to talk to or go see a film, a play, or a concert. Ai esta ... felis natal para a sua familia!

Well, the conversation was fine, because such a demand is rare (if not unique), so don't worry, you didn't ruffle feathers .

The use of Gryphon as an example was not so far-fetched for me, because Gryphon is typically a separation line between prog folk and sympho prog. Indeed, Prog Folk encompasses pre-classical music inspirations (which Gryphon was heavily influenced by) and when first building the scope, I was in favor (but lost the debate) to include Gentle Giant  as well , because there are quite a few medieval references in their music.