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How to define and classify "Progressive Rock"?

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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 10:49
He put all of us on his ignore list then realized he had no one to talk to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 10:52
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

He put all of us on his ignore list then realized he had no one to talk to.



Edited by Cristi - May 31 2022 at 10:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 10:56
^ I have to agree with Steve - analysing and interpreting are two very different things. When I write a review it is my interpretation of an album, and not an analysis.

Without meaning to get back into that other argument of David’s, analysis suggests an intention to attempt to be objective, and finding a result that is likely to be similar to others assessing the same album with a similar objective (at least, as much as possible) viewpoint.

Interpretation, on the other hand, is about my inferences, without worrying too much about whether they were what the artist intended, or whether others might feel the same way. Where analysis is more quantitative, interpretation is more qualitative, and almost entirely prone to my own subjective biases.

David has professed a personal desire for reviews to be as objective as possible, and therefore analytical. Such reviews would bore the pants off me to read, and I wouldn’t be capable of writing, even if I wanted to.

My reviews were originally written for me, because I enjoyed writing about the music I enjoyed, and for my friends, who shared similar musical interests. We would write about the albums we were enjoying. From those reviews, I was asked if I would like to try reviewing for TPA. And from my reviews on TPA, I was asked by the artists I reviewed if I would repost the reviews on PA.

It’s all been a bit of a mystery to me, because I still write my reviews in the same way I did for me and for my friends. I don’t think I write great reviews, and yet I am time after time thanked by the artists, who often say they are thrilled with them. Maybe they’re just being polite, but I’m pretty sure they are being genuine.

So for me, I don’t give a damn about analysis. I don’t even care to worry about what genre something is (apart from in the very specific role of a PA collaborator within a genre team). Music is music. I don’t care if one person thinks something is prog, and someone else does not. I just care if I like it. All music can be placed into three categories: Music I Like; Music I Don’t Like (Yet); and Music I Have Not Yet Listened To. And they are honestly (outside PA) all the categorisation that matters to me. I simply don’t see the point in expending time and energy and thought over how to define music. I’ll leave the definitions for people like David, if that’s what they enjoy doing.

[EDIT] I didn’t notice there was a new page of replies when I hit reply to Steve’s post. So the above is all a bit out of context now. Oh well, that seems about par for the course in this thread. I’ll go back into my cave now. Caveman out!




Edited by nick_h_nz - May 31 2022 at 11:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 16:35
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

It looks like David has dropped out of his own thread and left us all to it, probably because most of us disagree with him about defining and classifying Prog Rock. Tongue

The real problem is the ethics in much of this. Confused

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 16:36
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

He put all of us on his ignore list then realized he had no one to talk to.

Would you like me to leave PA, Ian? Confused

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 17:04
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

He put all of us on his ignore list then realized he had no one to talk to.


Would you like me to leave PA, Ian? Confused

I don't. Your posts interest me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archisorcerus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 17:06
^ But he didn't ask you Grumpy. And you didn't answer me... What the hell are we doing?.. GeekLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 17:12
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

He put all of us on his ignore list then realized he had no one to talk to.

after second thought - LOL

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 17:13
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

^ But he didn't ask you Grumpy. And you didn't answer me... What the hell are we doing?.. GeekLOL
^Didn't know your post was directed at me. Sorry. What page was it on?

We are trying to do the best we can with what we have on a prog forum with many angry members.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - May 31 2022 at 17:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archisorcerus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 17:18
^ It was a joke coming out of my twisted mind. Wink

Yup, I'd rather see a grumpy member here rather than the angry ones. Hey, I also get easily angry. So I presume I wouldn't want to see myself on this forum. Too much logic spoils the fun, I'd better stop. Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 17:29
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Would you like me to leave PA, Ian? Confused
I don't. Your posts interest me.

thanks, Grumpy  Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 17:52
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

^ It was a joke coming out of my twisted mind. Wink

Yup, I'd rather see a grumpy member here rather than the angry ones. Hey, I also get easily angry. So I presume I wouldn't want to see myself on this forum. Too much logic spoils the fun, I'd better stop. Clown
I agree with your logic and these forums are better with you in them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2022 at 18:19
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

He put all of us on his ignore list then realized he had no one to talk to.


Would you like me to leave PA, Ian? Confused



Nope, I don't always agree with you and some of your post irritate me but I'm sure mine do the same to you. I doubt anything I could say would change your posting style. As I've said before I tend to treat some of your posts as an exercise in method acting. I'll continue to call you out when it seems appropriate but no I don't want you to leave. It's an internet forum everyone is welcome to their opinion as long as they don't denigrate or threaten other users. There's an expectation of reasonable forum behavior on sites that don't specialize in flame wars. This isn't one of those sites any more and for that I am thankful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2022 at 03:39
"Objectivity" has been mentioned. ;-) 

There's another thread on PA where "objective reviews" are mentioned. Actually, there's quite a few threads on PA about objectivity. 

You can't be objective about music. You can only be subjective. Music is art, you can't describe art with a science. (Or vice versa.) 

I won't shake Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus at you, but the last line says 

"Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must remain silent". 

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Tractatus_Logico-Philosophicus

Endless hair splitting here on PA will not produce a definition of what is, or what is not "Progressive rock". It will produce a mass of opinions (welcome to the internet) where everyone is convinced that their opinion carries more weight than everyone else's. (Welcome to the internet again.) 

To jump from Ludwig von Wittgenstein to Dirty Harry - 

"Opinions are like a****les, everyone has one". 

And of course, PA posters will endlessly try to dissect "What is prog rock / is <band x> prog rock / is <guitarist A> better than <guitarist B>"  - instead of actually listening to and enjoying the music. 

Which is what music is about. It's for enjoying, not some kind of pseudo intellectual microscopic examination. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2022 at 03:40
Seriously, is everyone here autistic ?

I have mild Aspergers, but you're all beating me in spades here. ;-) 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2022 at 03:58
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Would you like me to leave PA, Ian? Confused

Nope, I don't always agree with you and some of your post irritate me but I'm sure mine do the same to you. I doubt anything I could say would change your posting style. As I've said before I tend to treat some of your posts as an exercise in method acting. I'll continue to call you out when it seems appropriate but no I don't want you to leave. It's an internet forum everyone is welcome to their opinion as long as they don't denigrate or threaten other users. There's an expectation of reasonable forum behavior on sites that don't specialize in flame wars. This isn't one of those sites any more and for that I am thankful.

Thank you very much for this respond of yours, Ian. Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2022 at 04:00
I think it'd serve threads like this if people would try to post on topic and particularly not focus so much on what they don't like about other people's postings. (I do realise that I just now do this myself; "the opposite is also true" as my favourite quote goes. Wink)

If you think the topic is not worth discussing, why not stay away rather than posting that you think it's not worth postings?

Objectivity is a strange and problematic animal even outside of music and the arts. Achieving it in its purest definitions is generally impossible, and of course all the more so when it comes to music, however "it's all subjective and all is worth the same" doesn't strike me as particularly productive either. Much great music (meaning that I personally love it to pieces) has been done by people who have striven to get better and learn more about what makes "good music". They have listened to others, they have compared and assessed, and they have not only relied on their own taste. So there's no objectivity in music, right, but futile attempts to reach it may have done quite a bit of good to music, so there may be something in wrestling with that concept, apart from actually reaching it.


Edited by Lewian - June 01 2022 at 04:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2022 at 06:23
"If you think the topic is not worth discussing, why not stay away rather than posting that you think it's not worth postings?"

To try and get people to THINK before they post endless, endless pointless questions. 

Which is the point I was trying to make. Stop dissecting music. Discuss it, enjoy it, don't pick it to pieces. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2022 at 06:46
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Which is the point I was trying to make. Stop dissecting music. Discuss it, enjoy it, don't pick it to pieces.
Some enjoy dissecting...what mic did they use, what guitar/amp combo, what gauge pick. Some reviewers mention odd time signatures and other technical aspects of the music. I agree with you somewhat, but I would like to know, in reviews, if a recording suffers from a brickwall mix. I don't enjoy that and it ruins the music for me.

Anyway, how is the PA band project coming along?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2022 at 11:30
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

It looks like David has dropped out of his own thread and left us all to it, probably because most of us disagree with him about defining and classifying Prog Rock. Tongue

The real problem is the ethics in much of this. Confused

It's good to see you back again, David, in this prog-nostic debate which continues to run and run - 15 pages and counting. Smile
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