How to define and classify "Progressive Rock"?

Philchem8 wrote: It became increasingly evident to me that peoples' contributions to this discussion reflected their implicitly-held views of the boundaries of prog-rock (and the extent to which PH existed within these boundaries), though no-one articulated any particular definition.

Edited by David_D - January 19 2022 at 04:56

Philchem8 wrote: ... My point here is not that the definition needs to be changed or refined, but to suggest that in practice it would help to define some, but not all, music that could potentially be prog-rock, and that it may be more useful in defining "to what extent" a piece of music is prog-rock as compared to another (for ex. to what extent it is complex and integrates another main genre), rather than determining whether it is prog-rock or not.

moshkito wrote: not sure that I would like to hear a new this or that, only to find out that a computer did it on its own ...

I enjoyed reading your post, and I tend to agree on this key point you made. I should’ve also clarified the differences among electronic instruments, electronic effects, and computer-generated music.

I grew up during the 70s/80s transition. I love music ranging from acoustic music “unplugged” to heavily electronic processed. But, in both cases, humans are behind the creative process. Electronic instruments are either being struck in real time by a human or programmed note by note. And, effects are added for texture and dynamics. If you played either on a piano, it would likely sound great.

Computer-generated music really bothers me, though, because music to me should come from the heart. I am also bothered by people sampling other people’s music, because I grew up primarily on original music, and writing/recording original music is really tough. Society has its trends, for better or worse.

I agree with you on the creativity aspect. That, to me, holds one key to Prog music. That’s not to say that other forms of music lack creativity. Certainly, most genres have creativity in droves. Prog, to my ears, is a very open canvas with an endless palette. There is much freedom in the creativity of Prog. That is different from some forms of music.

Bill Bruford gave an interesting lecture about 10 years ago on Prog music which is worth watching. Adopting technology is definitely a part of Prog, whether one likes it or not. And, while drummers were far ahead of electronic drum machines in the early stages of Prog, nowadays electronic percussion can hit precision beats in time signatures no human could ever play. Prog folks have, perhaps unbeknownst to them, even had algorithms developed around their sound.

I suppose there will always be a split in the definition of Prog between some of those in the purely human instrumental camp and some who are programming away on the electronic side. There are those who struggle to blend both aspects. And, this isn’t limited to percussion. Just about every instrument on the planet has been digitally modeled and can be easily accessed in software.

At this point in time, one would hope that a human is at least behind the Prog music composition. That’s no guarantee moving forward, as artificial intelligence (AI) is already throwing out chord progressions, melodies, harmonies, and beats. Should one embrace that technology? Where does one draw the line? Some artists like randomness and emulating sounds found in nature. For some artists, there is a blurry line in experimenting with noise within music.

In this sea of infinite new technology, where it would take many lifetimes to even explore available sounds (which are doubling at a rapid rate), I think “Prog” artists (whoever they are and whatever they are tinkering with) should pursue their own definition of their art, and let the chips fall where they may.

I remember when my child was two years old and had the idea that a “surprise” automatically meant chocolate. When I brought back a surprise from a trip that was a snow globe, she said “That’s not a surprise!” and proceeded to cry. I think categorizing Prog is a bit like that. Each individual has different ideas. The people who analyze music for the different genres let alone progginess (whatever that may be to an individual) have an extremely difficult task.

Prog is probably not merely technical prowess. Otherwise, most classical music, jazz, and world music would be Prog. It isn’t just texture either, or every EMO band would suddenly be Prog. Some would say Prog ended in the 1970s and that we just have waftings of Prog thereafter and nowadays. That seems a bit generational, but if that’s your definition, so be it. Others have a wider net with different degrees of inclusiveness.

We all know what this is really about. It all comes down to the question that has troubled the Prog community since the turn of the decade … 70s/80s. Is Asia Prog?   

I prophesy disaster wrote: The term "progressive rock" describes a type of music or perhaps an attitude towards music. Therefore, one ought to be able to determine if a given piece of music is or isn't progressive rock simply by listening to it, and thus history is irrelevant to the definition.

Edited by David_D - December 19 2021 at 05:46

David_D wrote: I prophesy disaster wrote: The term "progressive rock" describes a type of music or perhaps an attitude towards music. Therefore, one ought to be able to determine if a given piece of music is or isn't progressive rock simply by listening to it, and thus history is irrelevant to the definition.    If you haven't read my article (the OP), Prophesy, I could recommend it very much, and then, arguing for your point of view as criticism of my understanding of the whole defining process. To begin with, I'd say, the whole matter is very philosophical.

David_D wrote: when we talk about the importance of historical path in connection to the best starting point for Prog definition

I guess, you're right, wiz kidd, it ain't easy.