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"Progressive Punk", a new sub-genre on PA?
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 08:45

By the way, Cristi, I can only say that the photos and videos you use are very expressive - at least the way I experience them.

Edited by David_D - December 06 2021 at 09:01
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David_D View Drop Down
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Something else, this thread is not just about classifying but also about whether it would be good to add some certain music to ProgArchives - at least as I see it and for instance, Television. That would surely make me more happy than OK Computer, or Roxy Music for that sake. Wink

Edited by David_D - December 07 2021 at 01:36
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tszirmay View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:



Thank you, Cristi, I think that I got the point now - even it's still difficult for me to consider the practical meaning of it. Smile

- But I guess that I only can say again: People have different needs, it's as simple as that.

And that is also my point, Needs is one thing , but finding comfort in labelling should be a personal decision and not an imposed guideline as , more often than not, it is not even correct Confused


Edited by tszirmay - December 06 2021 at 10:29
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 10:43
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

finding comfort in labelling should be a personal decision and not an imposed guideline as , more often than not, it is not even correct Confused

"finding comfort in labelling should be a personal decision and not an imposed guideline"
I agree here, but people don't have to use the labelling if they don't want to.

"more often than not, it is not even correct"
Edit:
Might be so, but it can be a separate matter, unless it's just difficult to do "correct"/agree on, then, it's of course a problem however you look at it.


Edited by David_D - December 06 2021 at 10:51
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tszirmay View Drop Down
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Points: 6673 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 10:48
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

finding comfort in labelling should be a personal decision and not an imposed guideline as , more often than not, it is not even correct Confused

"finding comfort in labelling should be a personal decision and not an imposed guideline"
I agree here, but people don't have to use the labelling if they don't want to.

"more often than not, it is not even correct"
Might be so, but that is a separate matter.

Thank you for clarifying my comments, I am still very young and very inexperienced, especially regarding music and language, as I often put my foot in my mouth. Shocked
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 10:56

Sorry for offending the authority, but if age is a part of the argument, tszirmay, I can tell you that I'm not younger than you're, and I could keep on about my merits, as well. Star

Edited by David_D - December 06 2021 at 11:08
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Sorry for offending the authority, but if age is a part of the argument, tszirmay, I can tell you that I'm not younger than you're, and I could keep on about my merits, as well. Star

I am not offended at all, never was actually as I am still a historian but not a music journalist as all current "journalism" has tumbled down the ladder of respectable professions,  just one step above politician or used car salesman Confused Arguing is fine but you reply with obviousness , as if opinion matters more than the content ....anyway back to reading Talleyrand again ...Wink
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 13:41

Well, tszirmay, here can I only say that I communicate what I find good to do.

Edited by David_D - December 06 2021 at 13:41
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Hi,

I wish we would stop with this commercialized attitude about another sub-genre. What we need is a better, and clearer definition of "progressive music" so we stop worrying if it sounds like ___________ for a sub-genre. 

At that point, it would be progressive or not, although there will always be those bands that fit and don't fit and end up with some "neo" or other near them! Although I really think that "neo" should not be a sub and instead done away with, if the band is progressive enough! The "neo" kinda tells you that it likely is not close to the good ones that fit the bizarre description and definition which is based on 4 or 5 bands, and no one else from around the world ... because it was flat and everyone fell out of it! Tongue
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Points: 15253 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 08:15
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Well, tszirmay, here can I only say that I communicate what I find good to do.


Are  you using Google translator? I thought all Danes spoke perfect English!

English lesson

It would be more natural to say:

Well, tszirmay, all i can say is that i respond in a way that i see fit

OR

Yo, bro, i'll dress up like a chicken and lay eggs where i like LOL

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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,
I wish we would stop with this commercialized attitude about another sub-genre. 

Well, my intention with this thread is certainly not commercial, moshkito, and if a new sub-genre that should be just due to some  advantagies both for the musicians, fans/aficionados and Prog.

But I'm even not sure what to think about it myself, as "Prog" has expanded so much so, I'm concerned about its integrity.


Edited by David_D - December 07 2021 at 12:48
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Well, tszirmay, here can I only say that I communicate what I find good to do.


Are  you using Google translator? I thought all Danes spoke perfect English!

English lesson

It would be more natural to say:

Well, tszirmay, all i can say is that i respond in a way that i see fit


I promise to do it better. Embarrassed 


Edited by David_D - December 07 2021 at 16:02
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I wish we would stop with this commercialized attitude about another sub-genre. What we need is a better, and clearer definition of "progressive music" so we stop worrying if it sounds like ___________ for a sub-genre. 

At that point, it would be progressive or not, although there will always be those bands that fit and don't fit and end up with some "neo" or other near them! Although I really think that "neo" should not be a sub and instead done away with, if the band is progressive enough! The "neo" kinda tells you that it likely is not close to the good ones that fit the bizarre description and definition which is based on 4 or 5 bands, and no one else from around the world ... because it was flat and everyone fell out of it! Tongue

Neo Prog (basically New Prog) was an actual thing that happened in the 80's. Prog initially gave way to punk and then sprung back a bit lead by a new wave of bands. It wasn't made up by PA and so there is no reason to pretend it doesn't exist (as you seem to be doing).

However something like 'Eclectic' is totally made up and fake. It was never a thing. Although there is a ridiculous number of fake sub genres on PA, Neo Prog is not one of them!
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There's no contradiction in this for me. 

As has already been said, the overlap is definitely more in the terrain of what's been called post-punk. That, for me, was always the more experimental, exploratory path of punk. As opposed to the 'back to the roots of rock 'n' roll', 'just play, don't think about it!' branch of punk (the lineage of the Ramones, Sham 69 and Exploited), the post-punk groups rejected the orthodoxy that took over punk all too quickly, but grabbed inspiration from punk's raw and undisciplined side while playing with new instrumentation and novel forms. PIL rather than Pistols. So, yes, to the likes of: Wire, Pere Ubu, The Pop Group, Stranglers, Throbbing Gristle, Magazine and A Certain Ratio. Punk groups who also heard Beefheart and Krautrock in the backs of their heads.

I do remember bringing this up ten years ago and getting a right pouncing!
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The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough.

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I once auditioned for a Chicago power-pop/punk band called The Marquis' (sic) in 1980. 

My first audition was jamming with the guitarist, a chap named Todd Dawes.  

I threw the bass line from King Crimson's "Larks Tongues in Aspic Part Two" to him in order to get us started. 

He responded in kind, and we had a marvelous jam session!!  He was/is a remarkable guitar player, quite capable of playing anything. 

However, I decided I'd look like hell in tight leather pants and passed on the position. 

Punk and prog fit together like ham and eggs.  
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
Neo Prog (basically New Prog) was an actual thing that happened in the 80's. Prog initially gave way to punk and then sprung back a bit lead by a new wave of bands. It wasn't made up by PA and so there is no reason to pretend it doesn't exist (as you seem to be doing).

However something like 'Eclectic' is totally made up and fake. It was never a thing. Although there is a ridiculous number of fake sub genres on PA, Neo Prog is not one of them!

Hi,

You know by my film's posting on the other threads, that I do not go by "media" when it comes to the arts. Prog never made way to Punk ... but it was the media, and things like Melody Maker and New Music Express that made sure that they were "right" and sold magazines, because they could not find anything else to say about ELP and YES that had not already been said!

The media, is the worst and tends to follow the lemmings idea ... that little game at the start was grand fun, let me tell you and I died laughing many times! But I continued getting and playing Prog and a lot of other things, and if you check the history of Space Pirate Radio, it had not stopped either, so I was not the only one that was invaded by the controlling media that had also bought out the free form (and excellent) FM station that Space Pirate Radio was on and continued for many more years, and is STILL ON these days, which is showing us ... YET AGAIN ... that new music and new forms, NEVER DIES and the same goes for the arts, but we have not learnt all this time ... to get off the commercial train! And until we do, finding and getting more from new folks is very limited to the same sound, or worse ... another sub-genre that sounds the same and unplugged has so little music that you would not spend a single cent on it!
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
Neo Prog (basically New Prog) was an actual thing that happened in the 80's. Prog initially gave way to punk and then sprung back a bit lead by a new wave of bands. It wasn't made up by PA and so there is no reason to pretend it doesn't exist (as you seem to be doing).

However something like 'Eclectic' is totally made up and fake. It was never a thing. Although there is a ridiculous number of fake sub genres on PA, Neo Prog is not one of them!

Hi,

You know by my film's posting on the other threads, that I do not go by "media" when it comes to the arts. Prog never made way to Punk ... but it was the media, and things like Melody Maker and New Music Express that made sure that they were "right" and sold magazines, because they could not find anything else to say about ELP and YES that had not already been said!

The media, is the worst and tends to follow the lemmings idea ... that little game at the start was grand fun, let me tell you and I died laughing many times! But I continued getting and playing Prog and a lot of other things, and if you check the history of Space Pirate Radio, it had not stopped either, so I was not the only one that was invaded by the controlling media that had also bought out the free form (and excellent) FM station that Space Pirate Radio was on and continued for many more years, and is STILL ON these days, which is showing us ... YET AGAIN ... that new music and new forms, NEVER DIES and the same goes for the arts, but we have not learnt all this time ... to get off the commercial train! And until we do, finding and getting more from new folks is very limited to the same sound, or worse ... another sub-genre that sounds the same and unplugged has so little music that you would not spend a single cent on it!

by this logic then there is no progressive rock music as it was made up by the media lol
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Oh, FFS............ what next ? "Progressive ice cream van tunes ? " 

Are you all that desperate ?

Edited by Davesax1965 - December 09 2021 at 02:09

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^ LOL It would be fair to say that if contemporary Progressive Rock was in as healthy a state as claimed by many on these forums there really would be no need for threads like this
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I really have to agree with you there. 

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