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Genesis in the 80's
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Jared View Drop Down
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I don't listen to Duke all that often and I can't remember the last time I played Abacab through. I tend to feel that the first side of 'Three Sides Live' makes a fairly reasonable fist of performing the best from these albums and if anything, it gets played more than anything else (it happens to be in the car with Lamb, at the moment). 

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for 'Driving The Last Spike' though... 
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Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:


I've always had a bit of a soft spot for 'Driving The Last Spike' though... 

that's a 1991 song. Smile
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During my decade or so away from this forum, I'd almost forgotten what a pedantic, anally-retentive bunch of sticklers, most prog fans are... Wink   
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Points: 43519 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2021 at 05:12
Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

During my decade or so away from this forum, I'd almost forgotten what a pedantic, anally-retentive bunch of sticklers, most prog fans are... Wink   


I didn't mean to be disrespectful with my correction. Don't take it as "pedantic", or lack of respect.


Edited by Cristi - December 04 2021 at 05:59
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Firstly, maybe dividing Genesis music into decades is not the most meaningful categorization  because 1978's And Then There Were Three has arguably more in common with Duke and Abacab than the latter two have with the albums that followed in the 80s. For me at least, with And Then There Were Three, Genesis transitioned from progressive rock to what I would call, for lack of a better term, progressive pop-rock, and this period lasted until Abacab. Then from 1986's Genesis album, they fully transitioned into pop-rock and the albums became less relevant than the singles. 
I think all three prog pop-rock albums are quite good (even if not as good as any of their albums from their full prog era). While some of the songs from this period have very limited prog elements (Follow you Follow Me, Misunderstanding, No Reply at All etc.), each of these three albums incorporated innovative musical approaches in various ways. I think Abacab gets a particularly bad rap among prog fans, probably because it is more pop-oriented and even dance-oriented in some places. But I find this is not at all traditional, commercial pop, but a kind of art pop-rock that incorporates unconventional rhythms, beats and musical structures - witness in particular the title track, Keep It Dark and Dodo/Lurker. Abacab was the last Genesis album I bought. Not that I dislike what I see as their later more commercial period, but listening to their songs on the radio was enough for me. The music did not entice me to come back for more, but it obviously had a very wide appeal. I think it is to their credit that Collins, Banks and Rutherford were able transform and renew their music several times, thereby reaching ever-increasing audiences. While Genesis' 70s prog period is definitely the best for me (including the two post-Gabriel albums), I think they transitioned to a more pop-rock direction at a good time. While some prog bands, like Rush, continued to become relevant in the 80s, the more art-based prog rock played by bands like Genesis had really become too anachronistic.             
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By 1978, Genesis ceased to exist for me. I have not missed their later work. 
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I enjoy Duke, peaking at Heathaze, and maybe skipping Turn It On Again.
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I do like Turn It On Again and Abacab the song, some of the Duke album and a little of Abacab and s/t (Shapes), but overall that's really rather thin. If I rank decades of bands, Genesis in the 80s will be no. 463 or something (don't ask me to list the 462 before them Wink, but seriously I think 463 is generous as a guess if anything).
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

By 1978, Genesis ceased to exist for me. I have not missed their later work. 

If that's the case, I hope they went out with a bang, because I love ...ATTWT.
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For me, Duke is the last good Genesis album, and something of a return to form after the patchy ATTWT. I occasionally return to the later Genesis albums but the very 80s production values haven't aged well. The 80s songs on 3 Sides Live have a more organic feel, and Chester Thompson and Daryl Steurmer breathe some life into the hits. Although it was a 90s release, the same can be said of The Way We Walk - The Shorts.

Although I am not much of a fan of 80s Genesis, I think it's worth remembering that they started out trying to write short pop songs on From Genesis to Revelation, so in a sense the 80s hits were a return to their starting point.
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To me, both sides of the Genesis coin are good. While I may prefer prog Genesis massively over pop Genesis, I do think pop Genesis has some awesome strengths, and the fact, even in some way, they somewhat continue the big long songs on albums like Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance shows that, while they may be a new brand of music, they still like to deliver a bit of prog here and there.

Though I will say that Calling All Stations is a mistake and the band should've stopped at We Can't Dance.
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Originally posted by Philchem8 Philchem8 wrote:

Firstly, maybe dividing Genesis music into decades is not the most meaningful categorization  because 1978's And Then There Were Three has arguably more in common with Duke and Abacab than the latter two have with the albums that followed in the 80s. For me at least, with And Then There Were Three, Genesis transitioned from progressive rock to what I would call, for lack of a better term, progressive pop-rock, and this period lasted until Abacab. Then from 1986's Genesis album, they fully transitioned into pop-rock and the albums became less relevant than the singles. 
I think all three prog pop-rock albums are quite good (even if not as good as any of their albums from their full prog era). While some of the songs from this period have very limited prog elements (Follow you Follow Me, Misunderstanding, No Reply at All etc.), each of these three albums incorporated innovative musical approaches in various ways. I think Abacab gets a particularly bad rap among prog fans, probably because it is more pop-oriented and even dance-oriented in some places. But I find this is not at all traditional, commercial pop, but a kind of art pop-rock that incorporates unconventional rhythms, beats and musical structures - witness in particular the title track, Keep It Dark and Dodo/Lurker. Abacab was the last Genesis album I bought. Not that I dislike what I see as their later more commercial period, but listening to their songs on the radio was enough for me. The music did not entice me to come back for more, but it obviously had a very wide appeal. I think it is to their credit that Collins, Banks and Rutherford were able transform and renew their music several times, thereby reaching ever-increasing audiences. While Genesis' 70s prog period is definitely the best for me (including the two post-Gabriel albums), I think they transitioned to a more pop-rock direction at a good time. While some prog bands, like Rush, continued to become relevant in the 80s, the more art-based prog rock played by bands like Genesis had really become too anachronistic.             

Interesting and I can relate with this as the last album I bought by them was Abacab.

This was in my view a genuine attempt to create a new sound and a new approach. Its wonderfully produced and has some truly great songs (Keep It Dark, Dodo Lurker and the title track). More of this and I would not have got off the bus so to speak.

Its clear that they didn't want the spotty student male audience any more and wanted to entice more females to their concerts. Phil Collins profile helped make this happen and in all honesty I don't blame them at all.

Just a few general points (not necessarily aimed at you), WCD has 2 great prog tracks Driving The Last Spike and Fading Lights (actually more real prog than they had on any albums post W&W and both 10 minute plus) . This gets quite forgotten generally.

Their first art rock album was arguably The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway . Eno's involvement was important here as well.

The 4 album run Trespass to SEBTP just about defines what people think is 'prog rock'. After that nothing they did is quite like those albums or as consistent in approach IMO. Even W&W is a bit messy for Genesis and goes in a lot of different directions. ATTW has shorter tracks but carries a punch. Lacks great guitar of Hackett but that's no biggie for me as the keys do the job nicely. Duke is an excellent album and but for a few missteps could have been right up there amongst their very best. In live concerts they played The Duke Suite on that tour and it was great. 
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Ranking all of Genesis' post-1979 albums:-
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As for me:

5* - Duke
3* - Genesis, Invisible Touch, We Can't Dance
2* - Abacab, Calling All Stations.

And I actually enjoy 80's genesis. Abacab and Invisible Touch does work great replacing some tracks with b-sides. We Can't dance and Calling All Stations also has at least 40 minutes of great music (so removing the filler tracks everything flows better). 

The shapes albums you can't do much, but Mama, That's All and (second) Home by the sea are fantastic tracks.
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Originally posted by Dapper~Blueberries Dapper~Blueberries wrote:

To me, both sides of the Genesis coin are good. While I may prefer prog Genesis massively over pop Genesis, I do think pop Genesis has some awesome strengths, and the fact, even in some way, they somewhat continue the big long songs on albums like Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance shows that, while they may be a new brand of music, they still like to deliver a bit of prog here and there.

Completely agree with all of this
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Originally posted by Fredgerlach Fredgerlach wrote:

Abacrap is undeniably disappointing.

Disagree on this point....Abacab is quite listenable to these ears, sure there are ominous signs of what is to come, but otherwise inoffensive.  On a parting note - Calling All Stations has never gotten its proper due, IMHO.
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Originally posted by Disconnect Disconnect wrote:

Originally posted by Fredgerlach Fredgerlach wrote:

Abacrap is undeniably
disappointing.


Disagree on this point....Abacab is quite listenable to these ears, sure there are ominous signs of what is to come, but otherwise inoffensive.  On a parting note - Calling All Stations has never gotten its proper due, IMHO.


If by proper due you mean a proper as in hefty load of doo-doo, then I tend to agree. It's one of the worst for my tastes albums that I have played on my own and endured. To each their own, really.
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Calling All Stations isn't great, but I do think it's overhated. Honestly, From Genesis to Revelation is my least favorite album of theirs by a landslide 
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Duke is a fantastic album

Abacab and Invisible Touch are ALRIGHT

Genesis is the best of the bunch, seeing as the non-hits off of the album are actually good songs. 

Notable mention for 'Three Sides Live' which is an excellent live album
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Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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