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CosmicVibration 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
 Posted: November 29 2021 at 13:14 |
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I consider my political views passionately progressive, for
the betterment off all. As far as I can
tell my stance on most issues lean far left as well. I could be wrong about certain things and am
open minded to listen to any line of reasoning otherwise. I like a healthy debate that focuses on the subject. Even if it gets a little heated it’s ok if
there is no personal character assassination. Some for whatever reason engage in such
attacks. This not only derails the issue,
but many choose not to engage. Maybe
that’s their tactic, if you’re on shaky ground, make the opposition leave or
have the thread closed. There are a few that no longer post, probably due to verbal abuse.
I pointed this out and started firing
back mainly because of it. First few
times I got attacked I let it go and tried to redirect the conversation back on
track. This proofed futile… Personally, I don’t mind the banter… I may even be a little sadistic because I think
it’s fun. Even though I have very thick
skin and think it’s fun, I would never initiate it. It’s a shame some will not post, and threads got closed because
of the BS. |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 6339 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 04:21 |
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I consider my political views passionately progressive, for
the betterment off all. As far as I can
tell my stance on most issues lean far left as well. I could be wrong about certain things and am
open minded to listen to any line of reasoning otherwise. I like a healthy debate that focuses on the subject. Even if it gets a little heated it’s ok if
there is no personal character assassination. Some for whatever reason engage in such
attacks. This not only derails the issue,
but many choose not to engage. Maybe
that’s their tactic, if you’re on shaky ground, make the opposition leave or
have the thread closed. There are a few that no longer post, probably due to verbal abuse.
I pointed this out and started firing
back mainly because of it. First few
times I got attacked I let it go and tried to redirect the conversation back on
track. This proofed futile… Personally, I don’t mind the banter… I may even be a little sadistic because I think
it’s fun. Even though I have very thick
skin and think it’s fun, I would never initiate it. It’s a shame some will not post, and threads got closed because
of the BS. So true. The moderators recently erased a thread I started. I quoted a new article by the most respected Medical Journal in the World- "The Lancet". I posted a link to the article, so folks could read the Medical study. The article pointed out fully vaccinated people catch covid as often as non-vaccinated people.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 04:25 |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14691 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 05:03 |
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No it didn't, and you know it.
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 6339 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 05:05 |
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Then it will OK if I post the link?
Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 05:06 |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14691 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 05:15 |
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That's not for me to decide. For sure in my view it's better to post a link than to misrepresent what's in it (as you already had done in the other thread).
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 6339 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 05:30 |
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Far be it from me to mislead people. Let the people interpret the Lancet Medical Journal article for themselves. My interpretation and big takeaway? Double Vaccinated people can give covid to double vaccinated people. That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves for themselves... and not other people. Update on Progarchives Censorship- Without being given a reason, another Thread of mine was deleted. I published an article and an Australian TV news report about three Australian teenagers escaping an Australian quarantine camp. It's public news. Why was it deleted?
Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 07:20 |
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 10:13 |
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Federal Judge Blocks Biden’s Vaccine MandatePresident Biden’s edict that all health care workers in the U.S. must be vaccinated with at least one COVID-19 shot by December 4, 2021, has been stopped by a U.S. federal judge in Louisiana. In handing down his stop-order, Judge Terry A. Doughty said, “There is no question that mandating a vaccine to 10.3 million health care workers is something that should be done by Congress, not a government agency” … “It is not clear that even an act of Congress mandating a vaccine would be constitutional.” In other news, an appeals court has also blocked Biden’s mandate to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to impose vaccines on businesses with 100 employees or more, after a dozen states sued to stop it. https://blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvotes/archive/2021/12/01/federal-judge-blocks-biden_1920_s-vaccine-mandate.aspx Edited by CosmicVibration - December 01 2021 at 10:14 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 10:47 |
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^ That so-called doctor you refer to - and it is not the first time that you quote very dubious sources - is very much known for his disinformation practices: The New York Times even dared the headline "The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online" to continue to state that "Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines."
I didn't read the Lancet article, but going from a statement
like "double vaccinated people can give covid to double vaccinated
people" to "That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves
for themselves... and not other people" shows that you have no sense of
logic: the first statement does not lead logically to your conclusion.
It is just your very awkward translation of it and contributing - once more - to misinformation about vaccination and covid in general. |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 6339 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 12:07 |
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I didn't read the Lancet article, but going from a statement
like "double vaccinated people can give covid to double vaccinated
people" to "That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves
for themselves... and not other people" shows that you have no sense of
logic: the first statement does not lead logically to your conclusion.
It is just your very awkward translation of it and contributing - once more - to misinformation about vaccination and covid in general. Everybody in the world knows that a covid positive person can give an unvaccinated person Covid. That's not news. What is news? That Double Vaccinated people often carry as high a Covid virus load as unvaccinated people. Read the article. Double vaccinated people give double vaccinated people covid. Perhaps you should look up the Lancet article on Covid, that the moderators do not want you to see. Then, you would know that contamination is NOT diminished anywhere near 10 times compared to non-vaccinated people. The article suggests the opposite. The viral load for both groups is similar. I never said there is no use to vaccinate. I said word for word, "That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves for themselves... and not other people." Say, you are a 12 year old without any comorbidities. Your risk of dying of covid is so low that they have a better chance of drowning. The risk of dying because of the vaccination is greater than dying of covid for children. So why should a child get a vaccination? According to the CDC, 95% of all covid deaths have comorbidities. People die WITH covid. Not necessarily BECAUSE of covid. The CDC does not count old age as a comorbidity. The average age of all covid deaths in America is over 80 years-old. I submit that it makes more sense to offer vaccinations to anyone who wants one. I submit that old people and people with comorbidities should have easy access to vaccines. Why should there be a vaccine mandate? President Biden said the odds of a vaccinated person being admitted to the hospital because of covid is 1 in 160,000. The odds of dying are significantly less. I submit that if someone does NOT want a vaccination, then they should not be coerced in any way. They should have free access to vaccinations and boosters shots. But there should be no coercion! My Body...my choice. Your body...your choice. I'm shocked that people trust and defend Big Pharma, government, and the media. Pfizer paid the biggest fine ( 2.3 Billion Dollars!) in World history. Pfizer has been caught in criminal acts many times. Pfizer gave Joe Biden over $380,000 dollars last year. CNN, NBC, CBS, and many other Media companies take hundreds of millions of dollars from Pfizer. CNN news is brought to you by Pfizer. Attack the media-not me- they're lying to you. Or haven't you noticed? Please don't put words that I never said into my mouth. I wrote what I mean. Nothing more.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 12:15 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 12:49 |
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Well, I don't think there's an issue with linking to a Lancet article, so please give it. I'd like to read it.
All those channels you refer to are not my information channels and I know that public channels here in Europe are much less subordinated to the "Grand Capital" than in the USA, and I agree with you that we have to be very circumspect regarding Big Pharma. But, when it comes to solutions, whether we like it or not, they are sometimes part of it. Let's not obnubilate this reality with a blind opposition to what might be - pragmatically - the best solution... |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 6339 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 13:08 |
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I'll link the article, if a moderator gives me permission. I don't want to be a disruptive force. However; last time I posted the link, the moderator deleted the entire thread. I'm totally for people who want a vaccination...getting a jab. Why should someone be coerced into getting a jab? It's their body, their risk. It's nobody else's business, but theirs. As long as your vaccinated, under 75 years-old, with no comorbidities, the odds of you dying from Covid ( if you get it) are less than 1 in a million. The Lancet Medical Journal article said word for word and I quote, "Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts." If the above is true, then I see no need to coerce people into taking the jab. It you want it, get it. If you do not want the jab, you take the risk...and it's your business. Moderators, Can I post a link to the article? The Lancet is the most respected Medical Journal in the World.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 13:10 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 14:15 |
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^ Thanks. The citation allowed me to find
the
article in question. This is a UK research about the implications
of the Delta variant and the implications of vaccination, based on the
premise that especially the younger generations were not that much
included in the vaccination programs. And I prefer conclusions over
selectively picked citations that arrange the ideology of the quoter...
So, it
is better to get vaccinated, to get your booster injection, to wear
masks, etc. etc. etc. because even the vaccinated can transmit the
virus, even when the risk (of more or less severe consequences) is minor compared to the unvaccinated.
Everything that has been suggested before. Unfortunately, obtuse persons
refuse to take it as a given and refuse to adopt the appropriate
behaviour to diminish the spread of the virus, causing many many
avoidable deaths. |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 50937 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 14:21 |
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I find it weird that out of that whole article you're only focused on one sentence. I don't feel like arguing with you because I'm just not in the mood for it anymore, but clearly you have some sort of agenda or you would acknowledge the other key aspects that article has stated to give it the proper context it deserves.
Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study / Anika Singanayagam, et al. What is the vaccine effect on reducing transmission in the context of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant? / Annelies Wilder-Smith I am not going to make any more comments about this. Readers can explore the two above links and come to their own conclusions, but if you're one prone to highlighting one line out of a rather lengthy detailed study, you're not really helping yourself. I refuse to be held responsible for any Gish gallops that may follow. |
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 6339 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 14:30 |
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Good comment Aardvark! The sentence I quoted is the main sentence in the final interpretation of the entire article by the authors. You know, the main points of the article. Here is the Entire Interpretation...word for word. InterpretationVaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory. Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 14:35 |
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 50937 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 14:34 |
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And you made my point for me, only focusing on one sentence of my post. Have a nice day. Enjoy the upcoming holidays.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 15:07 |
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This is where you fault: you're quoting from the introductory summary. I acknowledge that it is more ambiguous than the rest of the article, but apparently you didn't (or preferred not to) read to the end of the whole article. See my citation above to get more of the essence of the research that you thought might serve your thinking, but it isn't.
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 6339 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 16:10 |
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Do you agree or disagree? Please explain your view, instead of attacking the way I write. It's not about my quotes, writing, or research skills. Address the issue or move on. Below is a simple version of my argument. My Argument? People should not be required or coerced to take the jab? If double vaccinated people can efficiently transfer a viral covid infection to other vaccinated people...then what is the point of mandatory covid vaccines? Do you disagree or agree with mandatory covid vaccine? Explain your point of view. Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 16:12 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: December 01 2021 at 17:06 |
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You're right, I was more focusing on your argumentation (not your writing!) than on your opinion, so...
Well, here are actually
two points. As said above, (double) vaccinated people do not have an
absolute non-contamination degree, but what has been statistically
proven is that this degree is much lower compared to non vaccinated
people. This is not an opinion, but a scientifically established fact
(maybe contested by you, but not by me). These same scientifically
established facts determine that vaccines first of all protect against
severe health consequences of the virus and secondly diminish the
contamination factor of it (these are facts to reestablish with each new
variant that pops up, but up till now these two major points seem to be
constant factors). That said, and that's the other point:
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: December 02 2021 at 09:26 |
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[QUOTE=suitkees]
^ That so-called doctor you refer to - and it is not the first time that you quote very dubious sources - is very much known for his disinformation practices: The New York Times even dared the headline "The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online" to continue to state that "Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines." Dubious source? You know, in all his articles all the sources and references are listed at the bottom. It took the U.S. Food and Drug Administration 108 days to review all the data Pfizer/BioNTech submitted in order to gain FDA approval for its Comirnaty COVID shot, which was licensed August 3, 2021. Considering the agency claims there are 329,000 pages of data, the fact that they were able to read, analyze and draw conclusions about its safety and effectiveness in just 108 days — about 80,000 pages a month — is no small miracle. They must employ some very efficient speed readers. And that is why the FDA’s claim that it now needs half a century to review the documents before they can release them to the public doesn’t seem very credible. Even Reuters has expressed shock, and its former CEO is on the board of Pfizer.1 Yes, full release of the documents will not happen until 2076… and you place your trust with these people. https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-licensing-pfizer-comirnaty-covid-vaccine/ https://thekylebecker.substack.com/p/the-fda-produced-first-batch-of-confidential |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: December 02 2021 at 10:56 |
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^ Don't worry, there are talks going on at an international level (and apparently there seems to be a consensus on the G7 level) to strip the big pharma companies of their patents regarding these vaccines, which would mean that those documents will be public way before 2076, and probably already in 2022.... That it is not public now is because of decades and decades of capitalist policy in the USA (so why would you support a capitalist like DT). Now, what I don't understand is why you feel the need to give six links to six different sources that tell the same thing... It is as if you are stuttering. But since I got the impression that you prefer to believe nonsense sites, I had some fun of checking where you linked to (from the Media Bias/Fact Check site) in order of appearance: - Overall, we rate Mercola.com a Quackery-level pseudoscience
website that sometimes advocates for dangerous, inaction or action, to
serious health issues. You might think that because Daily Mail is British that it would be a more distinguished source, but remember that the Brits invented gutter journalism! - Overall, we rate Daily Mail Right Biased and Questionable due to numerous failed fact checks and poor information sourcing.- Overall, we rate the Children’s Health Defense a strong conspiracy and quackery level advocacy group that frequently promotes unsupported claims. We also rate them low for factual reporting due to the promotion of propaganda as well as several failed fact checks. - In conclusion, The Vaccine Reaction is a Quackerly level Pseudoscience website based on anti-vaccination propaganda promotion. - Overall, we rate Becker News far-right biased and questionable based on the use of poor sources, the promotion of right-wing propaganda and conspiracies, and frequent publication of misleading and false information. You know that it is a choice to get your information from dubious/questionable/lying web sources, not an obligation... Edited by suitkees - December 02 2021 at 10:58 |
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The American Politics Thread
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Rottenprogger wrote: