Top 100 all-time as rated on RYM and PA |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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And, sorry, but for me, Pawn Hearts is just a messy H to He.. on it's way to Godbluff, and that's just an example on how different an album can be received by "Prog lovers".
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
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Not interested in the lists as such, but more your method - especially your recalculation over a 15 gradient scale (instead of 10, for ex) can you expand a bit, please? |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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I prophesy disaster
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Online Points: 4774 |
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I see "Pawn Hearts" as a unified statement, and this is what makes it better than "H to He, Who Am the Only One", as much as I love that album also. With "Godbluff", they changed their sound. And while they will continue to produce great music, they won't produce anything with the magic of "Pawn Hearts". "Pawn Hearts" is not a pretty album. If anyone is looking for melodic music such as Yes or Genesis, they are looking in the wrong place. But if one wants to listen to melodic music such as Yes or Genesis, they should be listening to Yes or Genesis, and not complain that "Pawn Hearts" is not like that. However, if one is looking for an exceptional sonic experience that lies on the darker side of progressive rock, then maybe "Pawn Hearts" will satisfy that desire, as it did for me and continues to do for me all these years later. |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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Well, it's in fact rather random for this list and much due to the fact that in some earlier lists I've made, I included ratings from Gnosis who uses the 15-scale.
I guess, the 10-scale could be quite good as well, but the 15-scale gives larger differences and if you only want to use one decimal, it's more precise. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5985 |
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On Rate Your Music Pat Metheny is not considered progressive rock. In this case, I really appreciate the articulated classification in genres and sub-genres made by RYM, which does not consider jazz rock fusion progressive rock, as well as distinguishes between progressive rock and progressive electronic. In this matter, the editors of RYM have done a great job. In my opinion, Progarchives has exceeded the prog boundaries considerably, and this also creates a lot of problems in the charts.
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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I prophesy disaster wrote: "I see "Pawn Hearts" as a unified statement..."With all respect...but this list is much about different tastes and nevertherless how common they are.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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But okay, the seize and exactness of the averages might not be so important because the big question concerning the ranking is how to weight the average vs the number of ratings, and that is very subjective.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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jamesbaldwin wrote:
"In my opinion, Progarchives has exceeded the prog boundaries considerably, and this also creates a lot of problems in the charts." I surely agree on the first part of this opinion but I consider it to be a very good thing for the Progressive Rock genre, and then you must accept what it implies.
Edited by David_D - November 02 2021 at 03:43 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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I reckon you haven't seen my definition.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
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yup, I figured that was it (and totally agree with the rating scale - I'm a Gnosis rating member) But I'm more interested on how you are integrating the number of reviews in your equation and how it affects up or down the average .
Edited by Sean Trane - November 02 2021 at 03:31 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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Sean Trane wrote:
"But I'm more interested on how you are integrating the number of reviews in your equation and how it affects up or down the average" Well, I just use RYM's and PA's averages for each album, and don't do any further with them (except weight them according to the number of ratings). So, regarding my list, if RYM's and PA's methods for calculating the averages are different, the averages are not quite comparable, and that can be said to be a methodic problem in my list - which I'm glad to become aware of. Edit: I guess there are differences in the methods which gives favour for PA's rating, compared to that every rating should weight equally. (So, maybe jamesbaldwin can't complain. )
Edited by David_D - November 02 2021 at 04:51 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
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Sorry if I seem to insist, but your list starts with the album with most ratings (I think that's the numbers in brackets before the "r") and this seems to drive up the scores to above 12.5 (though some/most of these albums would be up there, regardless) and yet Grey & Pink, COTC and Caravanserai are way down the list with a sensibly lesser amount of reviews. Surprisingly GYBE!'s album is abnormaly high given the weird amount of reviews It's that part of your leverage mechanism that I'm interested in.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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Sean Trane wrote: "Sorry if I seem to insist, but your list starts with the album with most ratings (I think that's the numbers in brackets before the "r") and this seems to drive up the scores to above 12.5 (though some/most of these albums would be up there, regardless) and yet Grey & Pink, COTC and Caravanserai are way down the list with a sensibly lesser amount of reviews. Surprisingly GYBE!'s album is abnormaly high given the weird amount of reviews It's that part of your leverage mechanism that I'm interested in. " It's very allright you insist to understand my ranking but it's apparently difficult for you to understand what I write. As I have written to you, I don't do anything concerning reviews, and so, I don't use any leverage mechanism. All I do for each album is to take RYM's and PA's average for it, and to calculate an average of these two averages, and this average is weighted according to the number of ratings given on RYM and PA respectively. So, in that way I have a total average, plus a sum (RYM+PA) of all ratings for each album. And then, depending of this combined average and number of ratings, I decide how I want to rank a certain album. In doing that, I can say, I weight quite a lot the number of ratings comparing to the average, which can be seen in my ranking. That is because I think, it's very important how many persons give very high rating. Anyway, this gives a good opportunity for others to hear about my ranking method, and please, still ask if you want some more to know or understand. Edit: Or it's more correct to say that I use the number of ratings as a kind of leverage mechanism, and how I do it, it's of course subjective, and can be done otherwise. And if you meant "ratings" when you wrote "reviews", I understand my confusion, and it's more like I misunderstood what you meant.
Edited by David_D - November 03 2021 at 13:32 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11560 |
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Just wanted to point out. Kansas is from (US). Topeka, Kansas to be specific. |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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Good to know, and I'll correct that on the list.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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Well, I personally believe that a list like that can be said to represent which albums are among the generally most appreciated ones.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11560 |
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^The list you and jamesbaldwin made are good starting points to the world of prog. Nothing more.
There are a crap ton of albums by bands that are never appreciated. Many bands I like are absent from such lists.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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^But can you give some good arguments against my conclusion?
On the other hand, I understand your different approach, and I surely won't say it's good to let a list like that dictate much of ones musical listening. It's important first and foremost to follow ones own taste.
Edited by David_D - November 02 2021 at 17:43 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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Would anybody else like to have a look at this top list, or maybe comment it?
Edited by David_D - December 25 2021 at 07:51 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15096 |
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jump
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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