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Why do I like King Crimson much less?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 15:38
It took me years to fully get King Crimson, I really started liking them only around 10yrs ago. Enough to start collecting all the vinyl, I always had In the Court but not the others.
They are now a regular spin for me.....but I have to say I did not try to get into them, it kinda just happened.

There are many many bands I can't get into, and many I will never even try, I have enough music to keep me happy for the rest of my life, plus there is excellent new music to experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 15:39
I have a theory. Tongue You ducked when they threw something at you. LOL  When it come to music for me at least it comes all down to time and timing.  For me it was Larks'  that first hit me.  And within a couple of years Discipline came out and that really clicked with me.  Speaking as a prog fan for over 41 years, you should never force yourself.  There is so much good music out there prog, non-prog, not officially prog around here.  Just enjoy yourself and may your hearing always serve you well into old age.  So far so good for me. Big smile

Edited by Slartibartfast - December 27 2019 at 15:42
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 15:57
King Crimson are the archetypical intellectual band. Their anti-dance attitude says it all. Some of their stuff is intentionally cold and unfriendly, some is exploration and mapping rather than expression of feelings or connecting with the listener.

I'm a big King Crimson fan but then I have this analytic intellectual side in me that wants to be fed. I also like "controlled aggression" of which they have a lot. Power to the point, with Discipline. I can totally understand why they leave some people cold, makes absolute sense. That said they have some very emotional stuff that they play when they think that you're not paying attention... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 18:27
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

King Crimson are the archetypical intellectual band. Their anti-dance attitude says it all. Some of their stuff is intentionally cold and unfriendly, some is exploration and mapping rather than expression of feelings or connecting with the listener.

I'm a big King Crimson fan but then I have this analytic intellectual side in me that wants to be fed. I also like "controlled aggression" of which they have a lot. Power to the point, with Discipline. I can totally understand why they leave some people cold, makes absolute sense. That said they have some very emotional stuff that they play when they think that you're not paying attention... Wink

I'm an intellectual myself yet I don't dig them as much as other bands

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Ignorance is strength.”

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"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 18:29
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

All equally disliked? Are there any you like better than others? I really really like most of their stuff. I don't like Islands at all. ItCotCK I like quite a bit, but in the same manner I might like an historical artifact in a museum. I don't remember the last time I listened to In the Wake of Poseidon. I'm very positive toward everything else. There's quite a bit of diversity among their albums. It's kind of a guessing game till we know more from you.



I don't dislike any of their albums I'm just not nuts for any if that makes any sense. 


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - December 27 2019 at 18:30
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four



"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 22:39
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

One of the very few bands on the site where there wouldn't be many quibbles about their belonging firmly in 'Eclectic Prog'. Depending on where you dip into their output will probably temper your experience henceforth e.g. I know a few Metalheads who enjoy the Power to Believe and Red while many Math Rock fans like the Discipline/Three of a Perfect Pair/Beat trilogy. Ambient/Space Rock aficionados tend to gravitate towards the Projeckts output and ditto the Symph Prog brigade who seem to be mad for In the Court, Islands and Lizard etc. Starless & Bible Black and Larks Tongues in Aspic are for me oriented in Avant-RIO territory. I can even imagine fans of Radiohead and Post Punk enjoying albums like Thrak and the Construction of Light. Given the sheer variety on offer, and despite the inevitable overlap at play, it's hardly surprising that parts of their output will inevitably leave some of us a little cold. It also probably needs restating that some individual Crimson albums have begotten several sub genres on PA and bequeathed entire musical careers to those musicians who continue to follow in their wake. Similarly, it would be unreasonable to expect anyone to enjoy every one of Frank Zappa's 113 (or thereabouts) studio albums

Exactly, I don't know how you can even generalise KC into one thing.  It's not.  

And I don't know, if a rock/prog fan doesn't get One More Red Nightmare, you're just not trying hard enough (or maybe approaching it with too many preconceived notions).  Just Bruford's work at the kit is worth the price of admission and that's without the beautiful saxophone solos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 22:45
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

King Crimson are the archetypical intellectual band. Their anti-dance attitude says it all. Some of their stuff is intentionally cold and unfriendly, some is exploration and mapping rather than expression of feelings or connecting with the listener.

I'm a big King Crimson fan but then I have this analytic intellectual side in me that wants to be fed. I also like "controlled aggression" of which they have a lot. Power to the point, with Discipline. I can totally understand why they leave some people cold, makes absolute sense. That said they have some very emotional stuff that they play when they think that you're not paying attention... Wink

I am not sure I would call their whole approach during the Wetton era analytical at all.  The way they play on those albums is so much looser, so much more improvised than most other prog rock bands of their time, especially the big names.  I think what they 'lack' is something big, bright and goofy (even silly) that many of their contemporaries had.   Yes, ELP, GG all had a certain goofiness that came through in different degrees (the most for GG).  This was less the case with Genesis/JT but they could also frequently explore silliness in the search for a funny moment.  What KC really is is morose and dark.  And unlike VDGG (or Fish Marillion for that matter), the vocals rarely have a strong character about them.  Yes, I am saying that even the vocals Lake rendered on ITCOTCK are basically fit for purpose and don't transcend the music.  Which is fine, in this case, because the music works so well.  KC is a supposedly vocal oriented band where you have to shut off the vocals completely from your mind and focus on the music. This is no longer a problem for me but this may have been back when I too didn't really get them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 23:27
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

There is a fundamental lack of feeling, a mathematical sterility, that encompassed their music, and became more pronounced after their first few albums. It is a music of numbers and calculation, with very little warmth. 


Once again the lack of feeling on King Crimson... I just don't buy it. Well, perhaps they do have a fair amount of mathematical sterility, but they also have some of the most emotional songs I can think of, prog or not. Of course, the best example of this is Epitaph, with those vocals from Lake that, well, I would find it hard to think of a more emotional vocal delivery anywhere. But besides, I can easily think of Prince Rupert Awakes / Bolero, Exiles, and Starless having some really beautiful emotional moments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 23:34
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

No one can like every prog band. No big deal. And don't force yourself to tolerate them by listening multiple times. It doesn't work.

There is too much great music in the world, focus on that, and don't worry that KC is not for you.


I don't totally agree with that. There's a good amount of music I have come to love because I kept on listening to it even if at first I didn't get it, nor really liked it. But yet, there was something that would make me want to come back to it, to try it out again, until I really got to love it (and I don't really understand anymore what is it that I didn't get in the first place). Yet, I guess that's become more unlikely with time, having come to know more music and what I might come to like giving it a try and what just leaves me cold anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 00:47
I haven´t liked every artist from any genre. Although my favorite genres are psych, prog & post-punk, all those have artists I don´t like. Well, haven´t heard bad psych artist, but anyway there are also artists that I think greater than others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 00:50
But, of course it has happened to me also, that I have started to love something I used to hate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 01:25
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

One of the very few bands on the site where there wouldn't be many quibbles about their belonging firmly in 'Eclectic Prog'. Depending on where you dip into their output will probably temper your experience henceforth e.g. I know a few Metalheads who enjoy the Power to Believe and Red while many Math Rock fans like the Discipline/Three of a Perfect Pair/Beat trilogy. Ambient/Space Rock aficionados tend to gravitate towards the Projeckts output and ditto the Symph Prog brigade who seem to be mad for In the Court, Islands and Lizard etc. Starless & Bible Black and Larks Tongues in Aspic are for me oriented in Avant-RIO territory. I can even imagine fans of Radiohead and Post Punk enjoying albums like Thrak and the Construction of Light. Given the sheer variety on offer, and despite the inevitable overlap at play, it's hardly surprising that parts of their output will inevitably leave some of us a little cold. It also probably needs restating that some individual Crimson albums have begotten several sub genres on PA and bequeathed entire musical careers to those musicians who continue to follow in their wake. Similarly, it would be unreasonable to expect anyone to enjoy every one of Frank Zappa's 113 (or thereabouts) studio albums
 

I must be a 'metal head' because Red and Power To Believe are my favourite KC albums! I do agree with your groupings though. Very interesting dissection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 01:30
Originally posted by Gully Foyle Gully Foyle wrote:

Art is subjective?
 

I don't believe though that all great music is Art as such. Badly played music is just bad music. Well played music can be dull and have no artistic qualities. I would rather music is just thought of as music. Sometimes an Abba tune will hit the spot that 20 minutes of spectacularly written and played music just can't reach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 01:34
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

There is a fundamental lack of feeling, a mathematical sterility, that encompassed their music, and became more pronounced after their first few albums. It is a music of numbers and calculation, with very little warmth. 


So for you, Robert Fripp failed the Turing test? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 01:37
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

For me the only albums of theirs I really revisit are Court, red and larks and the rest I can mostly leave behind. Every album atleast has a track I really like, and court and red in particular are some of my favorite albums ever. but their discography just doesn’t hold a light to some of the other top bands like genesis and VDGG imo. After belew became frontman they just never released another Starless or epitaph. Some good songs and some laughable ones but the fans eat it up either way.
 

that was the eighties though when no prog bands (inc those you mention) were releasing anything as good as their seventies stuff. I don't like eighties KC at all and not being a fan of Belew didn't help but at least they tried to carry on innovating. I don't have to like it and I don't!
Generally I think their discography stands up against all the other top prog bands extremely well and the fact they don't have a We Can't Dance or Big Generator in their back catalogue is a massive plus imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 11:20
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

There is a fundamental lack of feeling, a mathematical sterility, that encompassed their music, and became more pronounced after their first few albums. It is a music of numbers and calculation, with very little warmth. 


Many folk used to say that about Rush. It's not true in the case of KC or Rush, IMO. KC have many emotionally charged songs; Starless, Islands, ITWOP, Epitaph, Fallen Angel, Matte Kudasai...etc..

It took me a long time to 'get' Crimson, but it wasn't a perceived lack of feeling in the music that put me off. It was something else, hard to articulate, and it wasn't a penny drop moment. It was a slow transition to liking them. Now, having also seen them live twice I love their music and isten regularly. I'm still 'waiting' to 'get' Gentle Giant. I can tolerate individual songs, and appreciate the musicianship, but their 'trademark' sound, I often find silly and irritating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 14:13
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

All equally disliked? Are there any you like better than others? 



I don't dislike any of their albums I'm just not nuts for any if that makes any sense. 
Seriously, that doesn't make sense but in our love it or hate it black or white world you view is refreshing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 14:28
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

There is a fundamental lack of feeling, a mathematical sterility, that encompassed their music, and became more pronounced after their first few albums. It is a music of numbers and calculation, with very little warmth. 


So for you, Robert Fripp failed the Turing test? Wink
 

Please don't re-introduce the CAPTCHA's again . They are too much to bear in combination with those rancid straight-in-the-face ads that appear on almost every forum page and I can't stand Turing.

Back to topic: I have different opinions about King Crimson. Back in the day when I was a teenager, King Crimson, as the only one of the Big Six, was no more than a distant name for me. Even now, I don't like every one of their albums equally, in my book they vary from two (SaBB) to five (Islands) stars.



Edited by someone_else - December 28 2019 at 14:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 14:58
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

There is a fundamental lack of feeling, a mathematical sterility, that encompassed their music, and became more pronounced after their first few albums. It is a music of numbers and calculation, with very little warmth. 


Many folk used to say that about Rush. It's not true in the case of KC or Rush, IMO. KC have many emotionally charged songs; Starless, Islands, ITWOP, Epitaph, Fallen Angel, Matte Kudasai...etc..

It took me a long time to 'get' Crimson, but it wasn't a perceived lack of feeling in the music that put me off. It was something else, hard to articulate, and it wasn't a penny drop moment. It was a slow transition to liking them. Now, having also seen them live twice I love their music and isten regularly. I'm still 'waiting' to 'get' Gentle Giant. I can tolerate individual songs, and appreciate the musicianship, but their 'trademark' sound, I often find silly and irritating.

I stand by what I said. It's not a matter of "getting" KC, as I've listened to them since the early 70s. I own their catalog up to Red. I get them. The OP asked the question, "Why do I like King Crimson much less?" and from my standpoint it is their methodical nature. Fripp is either a mathematician who happens to play guitar or he is a high-functioning autistic. Neither is a deterrent to listening to them. I just happen to like them less the further one goes into their discography, as there seems to me an increasing sterility and lack of "warmth" for lack of a better term. 

Another poster brought up the fact Fripp has foregone using the acoustic guitar, so it would seem Fripp has made a conscious decision to disengage from what I liked most about their earliest albums. He also seems to have lost his funny bone altogether as well. 


Edited by The Dark Elf - December 28 2019 at 15:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 15:01
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

For me the only albums of theirs I really revisit are Court, red and larks and the rest I can mostly leave behind. Every album atleast has a track I really like, and court and red in particular are some of my favorite albums ever. but their discography just doesn’t hold a light to some of the other top bands like genesis and VDGG imo. After belew became frontman they just never released another Starless or epitaph. Some good songs and some laughable ones but the fans eat it up either way.
 

that was the eighties though when no prog bands (inc those you mention) were releasing anything as good as their seventies stuff. I don't like eighties KC at all and not being a fan of Belew didn't help but at least they tried to carry on innovating. I don't have to like it and I don't!
Generally I think their discography stands up against all the other top prog bands extremely well and the fact they don't have a We Can't Dance or Big Generator in their back catalogue is a massive plus imo.

You know what, that last point is very good. I like discipline, thrak and power to believe all well while still thinking they all have some flaws, but they certainly have never released a true stinker.
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