I cannot stand Gentle Giant |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43654 |
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may I use this as a signature?
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Mascodagama
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
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Funny, last time I waxed Ozzy’s back sack & crack I had Acquiring The Taste blasting on the salon stereo and we both agreed that it rocked. |
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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35837 |
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Well, thank you, Mike. It took over 13 years to get a laugh, but it was worth it. :)
Purple, Sabbath, beer and t**ties, of course. Oh, and crazy redheads, whisky, bar-fights, The Allman Brothers Band, Willie Nelson, Hillary rocking suitpants, and other perversions. So Micky.... Edited by Logan - October 16 2019 at 13:09 |
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Barbu
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Argo2112
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2017 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4462 |
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I'm sure many people got a chuckle out of that one even if they didn't say anything. I listened to the the GG & VDGG songs you posted. As I suspected, I liked the Gentle Giant song, The Van Der Graaf song, not so much. I guess they are just not for me. I even started a new thread called " Bands you tried to get in to , but can't.." I'm sure everyone has a few of those. |
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3145 |
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Music tastes are weird eh?? They're hilarious too. I feel the same way about King Crimson at times. I like them but I'm not in love with them like a lot of other people on here are. Gentle Giant for me are a special band. They never released an album I didn't personally enjoy. They're not for everyone though that's for sure.
Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - October 16 2019 at 13:44 |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Damn dude that's a really self-limiting issue to have, especially with prog! It takes time, that's all I can say. Iv've been listening to both bands for years and I can't fathom how others can't hear the excellence, lol. Understandable.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17513 |
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Not for everyone ... after the very first listen, I was ready for something new, but I had started with lots of classical music (over 3K LP's in our house), and unlike most folks, I had already heard a LOT OF DIFFERENT MUSIC, to the point where a lot of rock music was basically, really cheap compositions and childish rock music with very little to show for its ability ... with ONE EXCEPTION ... the music had ATTITUDE, which classical music had been missing for some time, even if it came in lyrics, but when one heard Miles ... one knew what "attitude" meant in music! In the case of GG, given the incredible array of directions that each player took that was so unusual for "rock music" or definitely "pop music", it showed an ability to put things together that was immediately far out and strange at the same time ... but yes, it was ear-challenging, although surprisingly enough with my well versed classical music experience, hearing GG the first time was ... far out ... finally ... a rock band that really means it! The harsh fact is that music history also shows that the majority of listeners do not like their contemporaries and sometimes treat them badly and then some. And you and I can attribute this to our ears being LOUSY listening devices, that can only accept the things "they know", and think that the stuff they do not know ... is the devil ... which was the case in a few religions ... It is a sad statement on a lot of the arts, that so many folks have gone through high school, and then, MAYBE, some college, and then University, and they still don't know anything about the arts, because 40 to 50 years ago, a couple of presidents removed as much financing for the arts as they could ... and still today ... you think he would keep an art this or that instead of a bigger bank account for himself? We've lost ... "the father" ... as a well known man once said ... we no longer have that inner connection to the reality, other than what we are told is right and should be number one ... same thing here, and the reason why I want the top 100 to be BANDS ... NOT ALBUMS .... so folks get better used to listening to more things, instead of just 2 albums by YES and 2 albums by GENESIS and maybe one album by VdGG ... and then have to put up with the insanity of someone saying they hate this or that ... all they are saying is that they do not have the ears for music ... otherwise different things would ALWAYS sound fine, even if it is not something that you like as much as something else!
Edited by moshkito - October 17 2019 at 14:52 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 24 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8615 |
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I have and love all of their recordings, with my favorites being Freehand and The Missing Piece. I know TMP is not that well liked, but it is wonderful to my ears!
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Woon Deadn
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 30 2010 Location: P Status: Offline Points: 1007 |
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Gentle Giant is my favourite western rock band ever (while I am from the former Soviet Union), and I can only say from all Yes' works I love only Fragile, from all King Crimson I love only Lizard and the debut a bit. In general, I hate Yes' music, it hurts my nerves. But GG and VdGG are a balm to my ears. It's all about one's brain, nerves, physiology, tastes, childhood memories, et al. For example, GG fans used to put the album In A Glass House on the top of their tops. I do not like it. The tunes in it are too repetitive, to my body. My favourite GG tune is probably "As Old As You're Young" which is also not usual among GG's fans.
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 25 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Online Points: 2498 |
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As Old As You're Young is one of my faves too. GG were very good. Up there with Tull and Le Orme :)
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3145 |
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How was the USSR???
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40121 |
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There are hundreds of singers and bands in Prog that I DO like, so I wonder if it's really worth the time and effort to try and acquire a taste for the difficult and complex music of Gentle Giant and Van der Graaf Generator when I could be listening to music I CAN really appreciate instead.
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tamijo_II
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 06 2019 Location: DK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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I'd say it up the individual - If you want to expand you taste or stay with what you like a first glance.
I done a lot to get into different kind of music.
But it was not because i felt like I had to, or anything like that. It was because I had the idea that this music could easily be something i might come to love a lot when the ice broke. I GG's case i love them instantly - but it took time to understand Van der Graaf, and now I'm very glad that i took the time. |
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
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Just the reverse for me. I GG's case I liked them instantly, but always felt like I didn't yet have their best work. In fact I have a friend whom I got together with recently who learned about and got mildly into GG through me. He was surprised at my negative reaction when that wretched "all around all around all-around all around all around" song came up on his playlist. The more albums I explored the more disappointed I got and the more weary of the snap crackle pop that was their note selection, as I noted before. As a Hackett fan, I certainly value sustain. And for myself, I have no problem with avant-garde work in general. I like plenty of stuff that's even more challenging than GG. GG is a talented and skillful group of players, nevertheless for sure. They're just so damn annoying.
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Woon Deadn
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 30 2010 Location: P Status: Offline Points: 1007 |
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In one sentence it may be: Not as bad as was and still is shown in the mainstream western media, while not as good as shown by some very-left non-mainstream western media. Like any other extremely huge country that existed for almost 70 years, the USSR was different, various, multi-faceted. It very much depends on the era of its existence, on your place of living, on pure luck. I was born in 1983, naturally I can't tell you what it was like in the 1960s, under Stalin, etc. I can tell but not from my experience, of course. The problem with the western understanding of the Soviet reality is the obvious momentum of perception, momentum of thinking. After Solzhenitsyn's books, after all horrors of labour camps' system were revealed, the western audience took it as the fact for good. Meanwhile, after death of Stalin in 1953 absolute most of those horrors passed away, for good (like, for example, GULAG system as such). But that momentum of perception... plus the Cold War state did not let the western audience get the new actual situation in the USSR. Actually, every era of its existence had some positive sides. And, no doubt about it, those people that were repressed being innocent, hardly loved their country and the regime very much. Unfortunately, the western narrative was also filled with propaganda, and as always truth is somewhere in between. Take Solzhenitsyn, for example. He obviously never had access to data about numbers of imprisoned, etc. He was a man of art, had a sensitive soul. He guessed, he retold many rumours in his books. As far as I can remind, once he told somewhere that 110 million Soviet people became victims of repressions. Well, it seems, if we sum up every potentially lethal traumatizing event during Lenin-Stalin era (until spring 1953, that is), it may give 20 million people, at maximum (including the people who were forcefully re-settled, deported, imprisoned but not died, killed during the Russian Civil War long before Stalin's reign). So, Mr. Solzhenitsyn exaggerated a bit... I understand him, he suffered and it was his estimation for he probably believed that if he had suffered severely then everybody else suffered no less, as well. After all, like many other writers, he was not the most pleasant man on earth. His egotism played its role in the manner of his speeches, I think. What my parents both born in 1952 and many other still alive and sane former Soviet Union's citizens recall is the post-Khrushchev's era. Which was way different from what Solzhenitsyn wrote about. In case you did not criticize the Communist Party elite, did not criticize Lenin and his teachings, knew the borderlines that could not be crossed in your public activity, your chances to ever meet the KGB, be imprisoned et al, were tiny. It means, when in the western media or movies or books they mention KGB and/or link Putin to KGB, they suppose it may mean something scary to us. No, it's a scarecrow for the western citizens, mostly. I can tell you about my attitude to the KGB - it is neutral with shades of joking maybe even slightly positive attitude. My parents and their parents were not afraid of the police or KGB, at least after the death of Stalin. There was not fear of KGB among the Soviet people, in general. People knew the rules, followed them and it didn't really look and feel that catastrophic as it was/is implied to be in the western culture. You may read this article from 1988 that tells it all in more competent English than mine: http://donellameadows.org/archives/what-americans-dont-understand-about-the-soviet-union/ I always wonder why in the world haven't the Soviet government ordered to translate tens of Soviet movies, some TV programs, tens of books, hundreds of songs into English, German, French, Italian, Spanish then to distribute them in the west, maybe even for free? The west had no idea of many decent if not great pieces of Soviet art. You may watch this Soviet comedy for good example. It is finally translated, with English subtitles. It will hardly become your most favourite movie of all time, but you may at least look at what the Soviet reality (in its polished version, of course) looked like. The policemen for the most part were friendly, that is true. The people were optimistic. This Soviet comedy also shows the whole spectre of Soviet life. English subtitles are available: The ordinary life for ordinary people (especially, for the younger ones) was boring, though. Not unbearably boring, but, let us be frank, boring. The USSR dissolved not because of people's fear of KGB (nobody cared about KGB in the last years of USSR's existence, at all), not because they hated Stalin that much (who cared about him in 1991?) - the Soviet people wanted plenty of goods, supermarkets, Hollywood style life, Disney cartoons galore, Barbie, LEGO, and so on and the like. Not that I want the USSR back. No. But there was a very specific atmosphere, very unpredictable yet weird and expected to be better life. The USSR was The Weird Empire rather than The Evil Empire - again, at least after the death of Stalin. But who among the sane living remember Stalin's time? People remember Brezhnev, the man who loved American cars, hunting (animals, of course), good company and was actually not a bad guy, at all. Not very educated, not very broadminded - yet not that bad. There was an atmosphere that many miss today. Warmth of people's relations that many miss today. On the other hand, yes, there were lines for most of goods most of the time. There was a one-Party ideology, declared state atheism. In particular, dentists used anesthesia exclusively for extracting teeth, which was one of the major cons of the USSR... There was no hazing at the Universities, at all - but there was hazing in the military, mostly a terrible hazing. Again, to the unpredictability factor, hazing in the Soviet army was practically absent up until the 1960s - so many elder people called talks of hazing a nonsense. In the 1940s-1950s service in the military was a great time for young boys, in most cases. Closer to the end of the USSR, hazing took the most brutal forms, including raping in some rare cases. The country with such a huge territory of such an old age (1922-1991) was various. For every million of its former people that hate it, you can easily find another million of its admirers. That's a very difficult question. I think it was a necessary experience for us all, weird and useful. However, for those innocent people that were tortured or murdered in the 1920s-1930s it was neither useful nor weird. What can I say? Should we find all bullies that somehow insulted us when we were 8 years old and bully them in return? The USSR history had dark and light pages. We should conceal neither, I think. For funny parallels, look at the Soviet Bob Dylan in the studio of American TV. The Soviet counterpart was tougher : Notice, though, that he had never been in prison or labour camp or whatever. Speaking of propaganda or fake news...
Edited by Woon Deadn - October 20 2019 at 15:54 |
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Favourite Band: Gentle Giant
Favourite Writer: Robert Sheckley Favourite Horror Writer: Jean Ray Favourite Computer Game: Tiny Toon - Buster's Hidden Treasure (Sega Mega Drive/Genesis) |
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3145 |
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Wow! Thanks for sharing mate.
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Guys, OP just needs to TURN IT AROUND; THERE IS NO OTHER WAAA-AAA-AAAY!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Woon Deadn
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 30 2010 Location: P Status: Offline Points: 1007 |
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You are welcome! Several months ago I have invented a sentence that pretty much shows my attitude to the Soviet Union as it is seen now in retrospective: HITLER turned HILTER turned HEaRTLI What started as the primal definition of political and social disaster, eventually became a strange twisted edition of Russian Empire with exceptions from every rule here and there. Like, heartli is not a regular word and there's an irregular additional a in it - but still it's no hitler or even hilter anymore, it's heartli. Not quite heartly, but everybody gets that it's close. I have no doubt about regimes in North Korea, Pol Pot's Cambodia and such - they are plain evil and wrong. With perhaps a few per cents of something good and perhaps one per cent of something great (even feces contain vitamins, after all) North Korea is plain bad, unfair, wrong. I also have no doubt that Nazi Germany after they started eliminating their enemies and Jews, was also plain evil. But when it comes to the USSR... I have never heard of Americans or Britons defecting to North Korea, for example. Yet there actually were Americans who moved/defected to the USSR or USSR-allied Socialist countries - take the singer Dean Reed, for example. So, there were not only intelligent officers. The USSR (=Soviet Union) had that Pythonesque aura, you know. Not as funny, sometimes even tragic, but there often was so much comedy even in those tragedies. So, tragicomic. For example, the first man in space from other country than the USA or the USSR was from Czechoslovakia. Yes, a weak excuse for Prague' 1968 - but still. The second one was from Poland. There was a state program Interkosmos, they also have sent to space, among others, a Bulgarian, a Syrian (!), and even a person from Capitalist France! Yes, the first French citizen to ever fly to outer space traveled there on the Soviet rocket. His name was Jean-Loup Chretien, back then only the USSR sent foreign citizens to space, as far as I can understand. He was the military officer of the Capitalist country and in 1982, before Perestroika, before Gorbachev, he was allowed to travel somewhere on the Soviet rocket. I mean, he got access to some Soviet space program secrets, to some details of the capsule, of the systems working in the rocket. There was no problem about it. When in countries of true dictatorship like North Korea or Nazi Germany they say that everybody should serve in the military, it means every living person. I have told you that in the USSR there was a terrible hazing in the military since the 1960s (when the government allowed/let the former prisoners to serve in the army, and the former prisoners brought the prison traditions to the army), but... bingo! - engineer was the most popular Soviet profession, engineers effectively constituted the Soviet middle class, people mainly studied for engineers at the Polytechnic Institutes, all male students of which had one 40-days training course in the military (where they hardly suffered from real hazing) and they all graduated from the Institutes as lieutenants to never serve in the military anymore... Yes, it means, that lots of Soviet men, the core of the Soviet middle class, actually never really served in the army (and so never experienced army hazing), at all. Meanwhile, by the law, the army service was obligatory for all Soviet males. If we count one 40 days' training for service - it was really obligatory for all males... And this is one example of the Pythonesqueness of the USSR. Add to this the excellent Soviet TV series about Sherlock Holmes, the Soviet adaptation of Three Musketeers, the Soviet version of Three Men In A Boat (which included many scenes not depicted in the book, many decent tunes, three traveling women to accompany three men, and even one light foot fetish scene in the protagonist's dream), the Soviet children's movie about Buratino (Pinocchio re...make?) with its excellent songs. I do not think in Cuba or North Korea they did Sherlock Holmes TV series... I've never watched one. Plus to that, Elton John performed there, Samantha Smith visited it. Soviet folk-rock band Pesniary even made a song definitely influenced by Gentle Giant: So, the last paragraph matched the topic well. And I can stand Gentle Giant.
Edited by Woon Deadn - October 23 2019 at 08:29 |
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Favourite Band: Gentle Giant
Favourite Writer: Robert Sheckley Favourite Horror Writer: Jean Ray Favourite Computer Game: Tiny Toon - Buster's Hidden Treasure (Sega Mega Drive/Genesis) |
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Woon Deadn
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 30 2010 Location: P Status: Offline Points: 1007 |
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The last video above inspired me to mention this type of meditation on the topic: can you stand the classic era bands that sounded very similar to Gentle Giant? Can you stand Yezda Urfa? Can you stand Et Cetera? Can you stand Epidermis?
It may be something visual that bothers you. Maybe it's because Kerry was too thin and polite and delicate, he was no Keith Emerson in terms of machoism. Maybe it's because Shulman brothers were of a wrestlemen physique, consider Ray Shulman's arms/hands/fingers. Maybe it was cover art, or song tiltes. The AtT album cover may look unsuitable if not offensive to some listeners aka watchers. There were bands with more fantasy-wise or more aggressive or more mysterious album covers. You may not notice such things, but they may notice you... And your brain may notice them automatically. I don't know whether that's to be titled subconscious, subliminal, whatever influences. I'm not sure it's as deep as sub-something. You simply may omit such minutiae consciously and they may ruin your perception. I mean, you can say, you are the listener and not the watcher, first and foremost. Yet you look at the album covers, you read the titles of the songs, you use YouTube for your listening needs and every GG video is on YouTube...
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Favourite Band: Gentle Giant
Favourite Writer: Robert Sheckley Favourite Horror Writer: Jean Ray Favourite Computer Game: Tiny Toon - Buster's Hidden Treasure (Sega Mega Drive/Genesis) |
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