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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46833 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2018 at 09:38
it's all about sex appeal man.. 

some have it.. some don't hahah
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Points: 8856 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2018 at 09:35
I wasn't aware that women craved excitement such as that of a member of progressive rock database.
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Points: 46833 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2018 at 09:28
you've met her...  and you blame me for not being able to control myself? hah... meeting her and the circumstances we met is one of my favorite war stories.  It was right out of sappy cheesy Lifetime movie... right up to the point in the plot where I severed our out of body connection and broken our deep eye contact and looked over and saw Raff stuffing a sandwich in her mouth at our table at that exact moment completely oblivious  that Stella was trying to steal her husband 

and I was filled with such love for her and turned away and returned to Raff.. who knows where that meeting over the desert table might have led us hahaha.


Edited by micky - September 15 2018 at 09:30
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 15243 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2018 at 06:08
^ Stella! Do behave already. One little talk about Hitler and you can't control youself! Big smile

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Points: 46833 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2018 at 22:00
^ I don't know man...   all I had to say was a word.. yes.. and Stella was mine.  She wanted me... I saw it in her eyes. That look a woman has when needs some action and excitement in her life.  

Perhaps it was the Hitler thing that nearly drove her to me... or I was just hotter than hell that night.. but we had that spark.. that unspoken connection umm hmmm yes sir.  
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Points: 15243 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2018 at 20:44
^ and one of those replies doubts its validity:

I really doubt the validity of this Emmanuel Borghi. I had a personal dealing with him in which he seemed a bit crazy. I did not get a "spiritual" feeling from him. I did get a very good sense from Stella and Christian when I met them. I don't see how Stella could stay with someone for so long who had some pretty crazy ideas about Hitler.

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Found this thread googling for news on the topic.

The most serious accusations I know about are from ex-keyboarder Manu Borghi who speaks of Vander's admiraton for Hitler: http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-words-about-recent-controversy.html?showComment=1257974246578#c8249785447085633405

There's also an old interview in which Vander called Indians and Africans degenerates: http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-words-about-recent-controversy.html?showComment=1258156071667#c1789000702300080936

Those were linked from the Wikipedia article mentioned above, but removed later on.

Sad thing is, apparently the band never really distanced themselves from Nazi ideology, just complained about the accusations. And as much as I love their music and would love to love it again, that's not enough for me
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Points: 11621 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 16:45
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^Of course a nazi-suspicion do harm. Its pretty much the most damaging label of all to be associated with - and this post of yours viewed 2200 times logically adds harm. And if you "know" that you shouldn't have started the thread in the first place there must be a reason for it. The positive thing is that practically every contributor here has defended him or laughed at the accusation.
 
I think you need to have your diaper changed. 
I guess language barriers prevents me from arguing on this level of sophistication so you win. Congratulations! 
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.


Edited by YESESIS - August 27 2018 at 17:48
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Points: 11621 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 16:23
^Of course a nazi-suspicion do harm. Its pretty much the most damaging label of all to be associated with - and this post of yours viewed 2200 times logically adds harm. And if you "know" that you shouldn't have started the thread in the first place there must be a reason for it. The positive thing is that practically every contributor here has defended him of laughed at the accusation.
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Points: 2215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 16:03
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

^ I'm sure you'll get over it. 
Its not about me or me getting over it though - 'cause nobody knows about my huge swastika-collection (A JOKE). I only wish "you" understood... I mean like really understood that this can do harm to an artist who doesn't deserve it.
 

Wow. Ok I'll humor you, how exactly am I doing 'harm' to this man? I haven't put anything out there that wasn't already there. And I've even said that the evidence isn't enough and I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt at this point.


Edited by YESESIS - August 23 2018 at 16:31
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

^ I'm sure you'll get over it. 
Its not about me or me getting over it though - 'cause nobody knows about my huge swastika-collection (A JOKE). I only wish "you" understood... I mean like really understood that this can do harm to an artist who doesn't deserve it.
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Points: 2215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 15:33
^ I'm sure you'll get over it. 
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Points: 11621 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2018 at 13:49
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Wow, chill man. Nowhere did I say that he is/was. I've said that he seems like a cool guy and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as far as collecting swastikas and whatever when he was younger. 
Well when you quote me in caps lock it doesn't look like I'm chill - which I am. However I wouldn't be chilling' if people on the internet kept digging up nazi rumours about me based on next to nothing. This is not the first time you've been discussing this on these boards. Do you understand how much such things can hurt both a career and a person? Even when untrue they stick.

Edit: but I didn't mean you as in just you but more as a - "all of you" when I wrote: Thinking he is you got to pretend to be more stupid than you are - so my intention was "less aggressively" towards you specifically. But I am annoyed by this on Monsieur Vander's behalf for sure.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - August 18 2018 at 14:31
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Points: 5538 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2018 at 23:13
^I think the main point in that Vander´s saying is that the main thing in Magma mytology isn´t that fictive story, but spirituality. I think he wants to tell in Magma-mytology, that people should search good and try to make their life better. And place to make that could be just one´s head.

Also, I really understand Vander´s and his bandmates thoughts of that time. Hippies have just tried love revolution, but the it ended into violence in the end of sixties. So I think they thought that time, it would not succeed in the whole Earth at least that time, the whole Earth just weren´t ready to it.
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Points: 165 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote philipemery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2018 at 17:08
You realize that still qualifies as science fiction right? This is a speculative fiction about a future people, using spaceflight to go to another planet, and start a civilization there.

That is literally science fiction in every sense.

BTW:

Collecting things doesn't make you a Nazi. I have my own collection of Nazi coinage, paper money, and a few other items (even a Luger). I detest Nazism though. I just keep the stuff for the historical importance.
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon. -- Pink Floyd
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Points: 2215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2018 at 16:23
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Part of an interview to Christian Vander translated by Stella:

The story of these people leaving Earth for a better place, another planet, is notfinished. Because as [early Magma bassist] Laurent Thibault said, Kobaïa is a planet… Kobaïa is like Earth, but without – how do you say – the stupid, the dumb people. Instead it had people with something in mind, and who wanted to work for a better place. They wanted to make this place a better place, but they had to do it on another planet. Because it looks like it’s impossible to do that on Earth. We could verify this, you know?

So, it’s not science fiction. You see what I mean? It’s not about another planet with other people already living there. It’s just about escaping from here, and there are many different ways to escape. But this is one of the ways, trying to create another planet somewhere. It doesn’t have to be in space.

 

Good read. Thank you. 
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Points: 2215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2018 at 16:22
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Well I might acknowledge my potential for evil, but I'm not going to fully embrace it and start collecting swastikas and trying to imitate Hitler or anything. I think that would be taking it too far. Like I said before though, I'm going to go with what Logan said and just give the man the benefit of the doubt for now and accept that he was young then(we all make some mistakes when we're younger) and probably isn't that way now. 
I've made my point I'm sure. 

-But here we have this eccentric artist whose greatest idol is John Coltrane (he literally worships/worshipped him), whose band has been multiethnic from the start and whose ex-wife is jewish. Cut him some slack and stop spreading these rumours that when out there on the internet - is almost impossible to defend oneself from. He is not a nazi - never was. Come on! Thinking he is you got to pretend to be more stupid than you are. Magma's estehetics and music flirts with totalitarian imagery... from their cultlike robes, logos, fonts and general bombast. Sometimes they sound like war. Its intentional of course. Totalitarian imagery is both repulsive and fascinating to many (including myself). Whether communist, Nazi or something else it has seduced hundreds of millions of people throughout history... and still does. Magma's very debut is about the destruction of planet earth and this group of people fleeing from it to live on planet Kobaïa - because man has made earth uninhabitable. Its a warning. Imo Collecting swastikas etc... isn't a mistake you so generously need to forgive the artist as a young man. Because the young artist hasn't done anything wrong. People should ask Vander to forgive them instead. 

Wow, chill man. Nowhere did I say that he is/was. I've said that he seems like a cool guy and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as far as collecting swastikas and whatever when he was younger. 
 

Wow, chill man. Nowhere did I say that he is/was. I've said that he seems like a cool guy and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as far as collecting swastikas and whatever when he was younger. 
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Points: 14110 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2018 at 15:36
Part of an interview to Christian Vander translated by Stella:

The story of these people leaving Earth for a better place, another planet, is notfinished. Because as [early Magma bassist] Laurent Thibault said, Kobaïa is a planet… Kobaïa is like Earth, but without – how do you say – the stupid, the dumb people. Instead it had people with something in mind, and who wanted to work for a better place. They wanted to make this place a better place, but they had to do it on another planet. Because it looks like it’s impossible to do that on Earth. We could verify this, you know?

So, it’s not science fiction. You see what I mean? It’s not about another planet with other people already living there. It’s just about escaping from here, and there are many different ways to escape. But this is one of the ways, trying to create another planet somewhere. It doesn’t have to be in space.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Points: 24295 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2018 at 02:57
Just a few thoughts on this matter:
For me, music is something to listen to and not to meditate on. But that's just me. Anyway, I don't think that the work of Christian Vander should be placed in a political context, not even when the Orffian choirs and some Kobaïan vocals invoke associations with interbellum-German. And what to think about the marching hammers in The Wall? No one blamed Roger Waters for having Nazi sympathies. And justly, for the antisemitism and involvement in the BDS-movement, which earned him a fouth place in a top 10 by the Simon Wiesenthal Center some years ago, date from a later period. Yet his latest album found an appropriate place in my top 20 of 2017.

Edited by someone_else - August 17 2018 at 02:58
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