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SteveG View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 05:39
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

If you say that the left hasn't lost any sensible judgement, I would like to say that they have their own views, just like everyone else. But they certainly haven't got their sh*t together.
Hmm. No one but a fanatic or someone who's delusional would say that any political party has "got their sh*t together". And I don't recall anyone fitting that description in this thread, so far. Besides, that's how Trump became a US President.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 05:56
Well, yes, that's how he became president, I agree, but he probably wouldn't have if the left had bundled their sh*t a bit more prettily?

Perhaps with a few sprinkles of chocolate on top and a feather sticking out of it.

Edited by npjnpj - March 01 2017 at 06:00
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 06:20
Yes, I'm agreeing with you. Both parties caused equal disgust which resulted in a Trump presidency.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 07:02
Well he is president and his speech wasn't half bad last night. He actually is starting to sound and act like a president. As for the Navy Seal who was killed in Yemen the mission wasn't a complete failure. Information gathered is being used for future operations. And men sometimes do die in military actions. At least he is aware of how important the military is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 07:23
One decent day out of the last thirty doesn't cut it for me. Let's see how long this so called "sanity" lasts. I give it 4 hours.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 07:52
Biggest problem with American Politics?  In my opinion...Bribes.  How can a politician honestly serve his or her constituents, if he's taken money from a special interest group?    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 08:42
In that case, omphalo, why aren't travellers from Saudi Arabia banned like those from those other countries?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 09:19
Hello Twseel!

I'm not sure I see how Saudi Arabia ties in with my bribe statement, except to say that US politicians have received massive amounts of money from Saudi Arabia.   As a matter of record Trump has called for the Clinton Foundation to return 25 million dollars to Saudi Arabia.

As of today there is no ban.  However, Trump is about to introduce a temporary 120 day travel on Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.   You may notice that Iraq was dropped from the original list. 

The purpose of the ban is to buy time, so that an extreme vetting infrastructure can be put into place.   Once the screening procedures are put into place the ban will be lifted.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 09:58
Hey buddy!
Well thanks for making my argument easier, since Iraq is where most of the Islamic State is based in the first place, and they started in Jordan. 9/11 was done by citizens of Saudi Arabia and Egypt, with the former still being one of the poorest, most heavily oppressed countries in the Middle East, the heaviest media restrictions and the worst Anti-America sentiments. And Mr. Trump just happens to be building some hotels there.
Iran, Libya and Sudan have entirely nothing to do with the immigrant crisis or terrorist threat altogether, beyond Iran supporting the fight against the Islamic State. Somalia I can slightly understand... Yemen is only in the news because Saudi Arabia is trying to keep a government in place there.
In short, once again, Trump has either no idea what he's talking about or he's fighting right against the interests of peace under the irrelevant guise of 'these countries are Muslims, let's stop them'.
I've responded to that last post before, America already has the tightest controls set in the entire Western world; every refugee already has 8 different agencies doing long background checks, getting interviews and physical and mental health tests and then the government still keeps an eye on them, while only three failed attempts at terrorist attacks have been made by immigrants since 9/11, and terrorist attacks in France have been done by people who were ALREADY LIVING IN FRANCE.
It's like Trump is seeking out the least efficient, least effective, most simple and most theatrical way to stop terrorism he could think of.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 10:04
I mean, if you can't trust the media, there aren't any facts to know and the best way to safety is blind hostility towards the outside world, right? Trump's pretty good at that, admittedly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 10:16
----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 11:35
Originally posted by twseel twseel wrote:

Hey buddy!
Well thanks for making my argument easier, since Iraq is where most of the Islamic State is based in the first place, and they started in Jordan. 9/11 was done by citizens of Saudi Arabia and Egypt, with the former still being one of the poorest, most heavily oppressed countries in the Middle East, the heaviest media restrictions and the worst Anti-America sentiments. And Mr. Trump just happens to be building some hotels there.
Iran, Libya and Sudan have entirely nothing to do with the immigrant crisis or terrorist threat altogether, beyond Iran supporting the fight against the Islamic State. Somalia I can slightly understand... Yemen is only in the news because Saudi Arabia is trying to keep a government in place there.
In short, once again, Trump has either no idea what he's talking about or he's fighting right against the interests of peace under the irrelevant guise of 'these countries are Muslims, let's stop them'.
I've responded to that last post before, America already has the tightest controls set in the entire Western world; every refugee already has 8 different agencies doing long background checks, getting interviews and physical and mental health tests and then the government still keeps an eye on them, while only three failed attempts at terrorist attacks have been made by immigrants since 9/11, and terrorist attacks in France have been done by people who were ALREADY LIVING IN FRANCE.
It's like Trump is seeking out the least efficient, least effective, most simple and most theatrical way to stop terrorism he could think of.

 
 Such is the overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis that I think people are not rewinding their news tapes to refresh memory......

As President George W. Bush stated in his 2006 State of the Union Address to the nation:  “Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy.  And here we have a serious problem:  America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world” (January 31, 2006).  From the mouth of the nation’s top leader, the U.S. suffers from an addiction.  Most modern machinery runs on oil and its utility is seen in everyday products from plastics to cosmetics, from paint to lubricants, and, most especially, as a source of fuel for the modern combustion engine.  Over time, to feel “normal”, the addict develops an abnormal psychological dependency on the addictive substance and will utilize any means to obtain the drug in spite of cultural or moral restraints.  In the case of oil, this abnormal dependency has led the United States to engage in bribery and corruption to obtain oil, from control of markets to the exclusion of countries from such commerce, from the overthrow of regimes deemed belligerent because of their attempts to take control of their own oil resources to outright murder, assassination, and war.  Indeed, few Americans today doubt that the recent eight-year war on Iraq (2003-2011) was conducted primarily to obtain oil.  And this is why veteran scholar on the politics of oil, Dr. Michael Klare, concludes in his article that:  “the Strait of Hormuz will undoubtedly remain the ground zero of potential global conflict in the months ahead”
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 14:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 00:24
Jeff Sessions met twice with a Russian ambassador during the campaign, and did not disclose this info. 

...

Are people STILL gunna be in denial? Bury their head, come up with stupid memes and whacky justifications all because the truth is too difficult to accept?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 00:46
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Can someone out there in Progland explain to me why the US has only two political options? There used to be middle of the road opinions which seem to be now drowned out by idiotic ultra-leftist garbage and ultra-right nonsense. Can one not be fiscally conservative AND socially respectful? Polarization : between two arctic wastelands , where is the land of the free? 
This tit for tat world is so primitive.....Ouch

Why is because of how our political system was set up, its very nature lends itself to two parties, and over time this has been enforced. 
For a couple of centuries it worked pretty darn well too, I always wanted more...but it was just my preference. Now we seem to be approaching the point where indeed two are not enough options. 

To be fair, one could argue the Democratic Party is fiscally a centrist party. For decades they have accepted the general Reagan/Friedman outlook but with a bit more heart. They actually accept fiscal restraint more devoutly than the Republicans. If you think about it: The goals of liberals during my big person life (2000s onward) were to get the Clinton tax rates back (so a 35-39.6% jump at top), universal healthcare and maybe some things like middle class tax cuts. 
So I'd say one is kinda there already but I get ya point. Polarization has become quite toxic indeed. 

Ultimately: tis on us people. We elect em. If we didn't accept these people, we wouldn't vote for em. But they run, they win. They have pushed the limits and at least post 2008 it seems nowhere is too far. Because while this process was already going on  I do think the recession had a major role. It's created a lot of social strife...people turning on each other, losing faith and patience. The already weak cohesion of society seems like its breaking down along class, social, racial lines. Ya know, working people loathful of others, of better wages, welfare, etc etc because we're all struggling. Wounds get re opened. We're all so on edge and in pain, basically. Not to be so dramatic but I think that has blown the situation way out of hand. 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 00:54
Yeah, Trump is executing his grand plan quite well. Be such a madman and fool, that whenever he does do a totally normal, planned, practiced speech everyone eats it up. 
Maybe it's the pivot we've been waiting a year and a half for, maybe it's not. Doesn't matter, it's all the game to him.

And while it's absolutely true people do sometimes die in military operations...a certain party in the US beat up a certain President, then Sect of States, for YEARS over that very thing...Some people died in a military operation, it was sad but it happens. Yet that was the basis of a political attack that lasted years, cost us quite a pretty penny to go through frankly useless, and excessive, investigations, spilled over into emails and etc etc etc

So it leaves me a little empty to hear that even though it's true. But that's politics today. Both sides (though hate to say, its far more prevalent on the right) just say what they want and hope people don't notice. It's worked because people don't notice...given how things are going, seems we wont anytime soon so why stop the gravy train?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 01:00
I've been living in, and also watching countries where a multiple party system has forced any government into coalitions.

The conclusion I have drawn from this is that it seems to be the fairest system, in that it ensures that absolutely nobody gets what he or she actually voted for.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 01:18
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

I've been living in, and also watching countries where a multiple party system has forced any government into coalitions.

The conclusion I have drawn from this is that it seems to be the fairest system, in that it ensures that absolutely nobody gets what he or she actually voted for.

Semi jokes aside....the last several years may be proof: The people maybe shouldn't always get what they wantLOL
At least not when, here in the states, there is such a dire lack of basic knowledge on many issues, a short attention span, and politics based on sound bites and image.

I know nothing is utopia or even close but I do think a prop rep, multi party system is the best way to go. Funny many said/say "ew no look at the gridlock that happens in Europe" or whatever, but I look here and think, gimme the drugs you're smoking! With all this woe about the lack of compromise and rise of extremism, maybe some forced compromise is a good thing. And what if it's perpetual gridlock? Not sure how that's different from what US politics has become anyway. *shrugs*

Oh and the answer to the drug question is a big NO. Trump, likely lead by Jeff Sessions, is making it known we're gunna crack down on weed, because why not? Forget the increasing acceptance and progress at the state level, old conservatives probably still think its the thing of black people and hippies eroding the moral fiber of merka. The same people who live in suburbs and rural towns, who rarely spend time in a big city or interacting with mexican/muslim/black people that fear how big cities are gang filled war zones as Muslims beat at the gates. 

Like I said, maybe the people shouldn't get what they want!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 01:19
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Yeah, Trump is executing his grand plan quite well. Be such a madman and fool, that whenever he does do a totally normal, planned, practiced speech everyone eats it up. 
Maybe it's the pivot we've been waiting a year and a half for, maybe it's not. Doesn't matter, it's all the game to him.

I love how he could get away with announcing VOICE, one of the most f**ked things I've heard of, and the news of the day is "gosh he sure sounds presidential"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 01:27
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Yeah, Trump is executing his grand plan quite well. Be such a madman and fool, that whenever he does do a totally normal, planned, practiced speech everyone eats it up. 
Maybe it's the pivot we've been waiting a year and a half for, maybe it's not. Doesn't matter, it's all the game to him.

I love how he could get away with announcing VOICE, one of the most f**ked things I've heard of, and the news of the day is "gosh he sure sounds presidential"

Pretty much.
It's really that simple. He behaves like such an utter nut case, being normal now is a shining beacon for him that everyone falls for. 
I've accepted he has mastered the art of madman negotiation. 

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