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CPicard 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
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Points: 10841
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 Posted: November 01 2016 at 11:20 |
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If we're discussing oil, Israel and all that jazz, maybe we should start thinking that, while Israel is NOT producing oil, at least this country can be a gate to the oil shores for the Western countries...
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 6673
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Posted: November 01 2016 at 11:24 |
 CPicard wrote:
If we're discussing oil, Israel and all that jazz, maybe we should start thinking that, while Israel is NOT producing oil, at least this country can be a gate to the oil shores for the Western countries...
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BP and many western oil companies were there way before 1948. After all, Iraq was a British creation in order to mine the oil. Saudi Arabia as well, I believe in 1932. And please, let's not talk about the UAE, a recent gateway.
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: November 01 2016 at 11:41 |
tszirmay wrote:
CPicard wrote:
If we're discussing oil, Israel and all that jazz, maybe we should start thinking that, while Israel is NOT producing oil, at least this country can be a gate to the oil shores for the Western countries...
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BP and many western oil companies were there way before 1948. After all, Iraq was a British creation in order to mine the oil. Saudi Arabia as well, I believe in 1932. And please, let's not talk about the UAE, a recent gateway. |
I know that, but I also wonder about the whereabouts of Cold War. Anyway, all this discussion takes faraway from the irreponsibility of Roger Waters who offers a rather simplistic view about the subject (just like Roald Dahl did in this time). I just wonder if Waters has something to say about Tibet, Chechnya, the Rohingyas in Burma, Kurdistan, etc...
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 6673
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Posted: November 01 2016 at 11:46 |
CPicard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
CPicard wrote:
If we're discussing oil, Israel and all that jazz, maybe we should start thinking that, while Israel is NOT producing oil, at least this country can be a gate to the oil shores for the Western countries...
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BP and many western oil companies were there way before 1948. After all, Iraq was a British creation in order to mine the oil. Saudi Arabia as well, I believe in 1932. And please, let's not talk about the UAE, a recent gateway. |
I know that, but I also wonder about the whereabouts of Cold War.
Anyway, all this discussion takes faraway from the irreponsibility of Roger Waters who offers a rather simplistic view about the subject (just like Roald Dahl did in this time).
I just wonder if Waters has something to say about Tibet, Chechnya, the Rohingyas in Burma, Kurdistan, etc...
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Indeed what about the strict walls of inhumanity that govern Saudi Arabia, the lawlessness of Somalia, the infighting in Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Sudan. But that would be too novel for him, its way easier , as 'he warms his bones by the fire' to parrot old and false fallacies and judge from his holier than thou artistic podium.
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
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Points: 5319
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Posted: November 01 2016 at 12:35 |
tszirmay wrote:
Right! Facts suck, don't they ? |
I said petroleum products, they export them.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 17 2006
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Posted: November 01 2016 at 12:42 |
timothy leary wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Right! Facts suck, don't they ? |
I said petroleum products, they export them. |
Correct. Many countries who import oil , then export petroleum based products , like.......Plastics  Among many other things
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: November 01 2016 at 12:50 |
Sagichim wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
There is oil in Israel |
You must mean cooking oil... |
No I meant crude oil. I never said they export crude oil.
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AZF
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
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Posted: November 01 2016 at 12:58 |
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American Express take a $4 million sponsorship deal off the table for Roger's next tour.
https://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2016/10/30/principles-cost-millions/
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javajeff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2009
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 467
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Posted: November 03 2016 at 03:38 |
AZF wrote:
American Express take a $4 million sponsorship deal off the table for Roger's next tour.
https://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2016/10/30/principles-cost-millions/ |
It makes more sense for musicians to just stay out of politics. Why not try to have fans in all countries and appeal to everyone. They are in the entertainment business, which requires people for them to entertain. Taking sides in political issues where you have no roots is strange, yet only picking one issue and not weighing in on all of them...sounds like Cherry Picking.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
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Points: 10841
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Posted: November 03 2016 at 08:21 |
javajeff wrote:
AZF wrote:
American Express take a $4 million sponsorship deal off the table for Roger's next tour.
https://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2016/10/30/principles-cost-millions/ |
It makes more sense for musicians to just stay out of politics. Why not try to have fans in all countries and appeal to everyone. They are in the entertainment business, which requires people for them to entertain. Taking sides in political issues where you have no roots is strange, yet only picking one issue and not weighing in on all of them...sounds like Cherry Picking.
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It makes more sense for musicians whatever they want: if music is just entertainment, then we'd better listen to dance music with lyrics about boy-meets-girl and not asking for something more ambitious. Then, we should ask the same to writers, cinema directors, painters, etc... Goodbye Orwell, Ken Loach or even Charlie Chaplin and his goddamn "Dictactor": couldn't he stay out of political stuff and keep doing his Charlot routine?
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Dellinger
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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12732
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Posted: November 03 2016 at 15:22 |
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OK, I'm afraid to get more involved in this discussion than I am capable of, for I haven't really investigated enough about the situation to enter a discussion about it. However, I just found this article about Waters and his reasons for getting involved. It would seem to me that at least he does know enough about this to form his own judgement, and he has been in Israel in order to have seen how things are going there. If he is wrong on his views or not, that is another matter, but at least he is informed and has seen it in person and made a choice.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/roger-waters-pink-floyd-israel-boycott-ban-palestine-a6884971.html
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Sagichim
Special Collaborator
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Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
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Posted: November 04 2016 at 09:21 |
^ He actually says nothing here, just points out the situation without investigating the reasons for it. The only thing he does say is also mostly wrong. He says, that people here are treated differently depending on their ethnicity, and that there 40 to 50 laws depending if you are a jew or not. This might be true if you live in one of the arab countries where there is no democracy and human rights or women rights doesn't really exist. 40 to 50 laws depending if you are a jew...  this is just hilarious, I knew he was wrong but now I know he's a real idiot to believe such things.
Palestinians that live in Israel and are proper citizens (about million people maybe more, I don't know)have the same rights and are treated equaly, I agree they might be under a certain suspicion but still they can go anywhere and do whatever they like just like me. Israeli Palestinians here serve as doctors, judges, lawyers, actors, musicians and just every position you can think of. The only thing that separates us is that they don't go to the army. On the other hand, this country is certainly not perfect, we have people with prejudice minds, bigots and every kind that exist just like in every other country.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20609
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Posted: November 04 2016 at 13:39 |
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^I might be wrong but I believe that Water's beef is with the violence that exits in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, not just how Palestinians are treated in general. What's your take on this Sagi?
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12732
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Posted: November 04 2016 at 22:03 |
Sagichim wrote:
^ He actually says nothing here, just points out the situation without investigating the reasons for it. The only thing he does say is also mostly wrong. He says, that people here are treated differently depending on their ethnicity, and that there 40 to 50 laws depending if you are a jew or not. This might be true if you live in one of the arab countries where there is no democracy and human rights or women rights doesn't really exist. 40 to 50 laws depending if you are a jew... this is just hilarious, I knew he was wrong but now I know he's a real idiot to believe such things.
Palestinians that live in Israel and are proper citizens (about million people maybe more, I don't know)have the same rights and are treated equaly, I agree they might be under a certain suspicion but still they can go anywhere and do whatever they like just like me. Israeli Palestinians here serve as doctors, judges, lawyers, actors, musicians and just every position you can think of. The only thing that separates us is that they don't go to the army. On the other hand, this country is certainly not perfect, we have people with prejudice minds, bigots and every kind that exist just like in every other country.
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Well, he does say he went to Israel and saw the situation and was impressed and felt he had to do something. He had actually gone to do a concert with no agenda. Now, if his perceptions were right, or if he has done any research besides, I can't really know... I would hope he would do so, but you certainly have a much clearer notion of how things are over there.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
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Posted: November 04 2016 at 23:57 |
Sorry guys but he is not an anti-Semite or a
pro-Palestinian, nor a pro-fascist or anti-corporate. He is a typical,
relatively intelligent mind that decides to become a sh*t-disturber. That is
all, no need to look further, this is a very common European sickness, to go
whichever the wind blows and constantly seek out attention, especially when the
psyche has been wounded with paranoia, guilt, rage, blindness , submission and ”the
Wall” . He is just seeking attention, like the good grandpa that he is , and if
he can be a curmudgeon (which he has done now for 30 years or so, lawsuits not
withstanding ), who is going to care? Nick Mason? Er… Dave Gilmour? I am
laughing hysterically! Really? If he was
there in Israel and he saw the daily reality, then the only reason he speaks
out against this evidence, is by blaming Israel for Gaza being run by greedy
despots in Hamas. But that would not be politically correct, now would it!
Waters always was an eccentric, daresay a luna-tic (well we all know he had
been to the dark side of the moon) , and he just loves pissing off people ,
anyone , anywhere. Ask Nick, Dave and Rick up in heaven. Great musician and bassist but an ass as a human. Hypocrite !
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
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Posted: November 05 2016 at 02:03 |
Landing here only now,I won't read all the previous comments.
Facts:
Roger Waters has always been in oitis. This is nothing new.
Together with the David's star in the The Wall show there are communist, nazis, dollars halfmoons and everything he thinks is the cause of today's conflicts. The Wall is about wars not about Israel,
My personal opinions:
Israel has an apartheid system The occupation of Palestine is illegal and a violation of human rights. The vice minister is an idiot bigot (not very significant, this one). As "A Man" says, being against a government doesn't mean being against a people or a nation. If Trump wins I won't become anti-american. I don't like Hamas and bigots in general.
There's a lot of Israeli good musicians and I have hebrew relatives.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
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Posted: November 05 2016 at 02:03 |
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Most of all, Politics fits well in music. We can disagree, but if we remove politics from music probably more than half of Zappa is gone.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921
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Posted: November 05 2016 at 02:17 |
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I only think of Roger and bass. My No.1 influence (solid, creative, without any OTT technical w**kery). Sorry, I think nothing of politicks..........but I know when they affect me.....
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javajeff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2009
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 467
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Posted: November 05 2016 at 05:01 |
octopus-4 wrote:
My personal opinions:
The occupation of Palestine is illegal and a violation of human rights. |
What laws are you referring to? FYI: We are just human beings living on this Molten ball of rock, and we do not really own anything. The people that can defend land, gets the land. Civilizations have fallen before. What about animal rights?
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Finnforest
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Joined: February 03 2007
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Posted: November 05 2016 at 08:21 |
" I lie and am rather aggressive." -Roger Waters 
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Roger Waters & middle East politics
