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Topic ClosedNobel Prize for Literature goes to Bob Dylan

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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2016 at 11:33
'Harp and carp, come along wi'me, Thomas the Rhymer',
'Harp and carp, come along wi'me, Thomas the Rhymer'.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2016 at 12:14
Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes,
You'd know what a drag it is to see you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2016 at 12:34
One thing is obvious though, never before, have so many had an opinion about the reciever of the prize. Never before have so many been able to discuss it.
I bet that most of you here normally have never heard of the awarded author beforehand. How many have you read? And how many do you remember after a few years?  Elytis? Seifert? Bunin?
I'm pretty certain that Dylan will still be able to speak to new generations at least 50 years from now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2016 at 14:25
I can only say three words to defend this man: Blonde on Blonde.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2016 at 14:56
He's made some decent albums but I think the problem is he's barely a poet and not a novelist at all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2016 at 18:05
More than 3 hours without any bitchin'...Wow!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2016 at 21:48
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Good. Now we can go back to discussing how unworthy Bob Dylan is of an award for literary contributions to humanity. 
 
I'll drink to that........    Beer
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2016 at 22:48
Just read Mario Vargas Llosa's opinion

“Me gusta mucho como cantante, pero creo que ha sido una equivocación de la Academia Sueca. Tengo la impresión que la civilización del espectáculo entraba a la academia y me preguntaba si el próximo año le darían el premio Nobel a un futbolista”.

Mario Vargas Llosa

"I really like him as a singer, but I think it was a mistake of the Swedish Academy. I have the impression that the show civilization entered to the academy and I am wondering if next year they will give the Nobel prize to a soccer player. "

Mario Vargas Llosa

Despite the great merits of Dylan as a singer and composer, I agree with Vargas Llosa
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2016 at 23:10
Hmm, if they're going to start giving Nobels for prolific popular songwriting, then I guess Max Martin will be a shoo-in for next year. Wink
when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2016 at 23:50
It's enough already.   It's become obsessive.   Is it worse giving the Literature Prize to Dylan decades after his best offerings than the Peace Prize to Obama before he'd done much?   Al Gore?   Yasser Arafat?   At least Dylan earned it with a lifetime of important work.   Years from now I have little doubt history will embrace his recognition.

Shame.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 00:42
No it's not enough already. He wasn't given the Peace prize, he was awarded the prize for Literature, the Peace prize has long since degraded itself as a political award. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Dylan as an artiste the fundamental question of whether a song's lyrics are Literature (with a capital "L") remains. After 100 years of ignoring lyrics and lyricist the Nobel commission now thinks they do, many of us disagree, not because Dylan isn't worthy or that his lifetime achievement is without merit, or lacks the "idealism" stipulated by Freddy Nobel in his bequeathment, but because song lyrics are not at the same literary level of poetry in pretty much the same way as greeting card verses aren't.

If the award had been given to a different singer-songwriter or lyricist would those defending Dylan be so vocal?


Edited by Dean - October 21 2016 at 00:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 01:17
^Probably not.  That's the point.

As to song lyrics, I agree that, as a form, they are not poetry or literature.   But the award goes to Dylan's contributions to the language arts, not as a writer per se.  He is not a writer, but by that standard JK Rowling is more deserving of the award which though perhaps true, would probably raise as much controversy for different reasons.   

But if, as you say, the Peace Prize has long since degraded then why do we care about the Literature Prize?   I mean should we try to save its credibility by condemning the decision, or should we now discard it as well?  Just asking.
 

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 01:26
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^Probably not.  That's the point.

As to song lyrics, I agree that, as a form, they are not poetry or literature.   But the award goes to Dylan's contributions to the language arts, not as a writer per se.  He is not a writer, but by that standard JK Rowling is more deserving of the award which though perhaps true, would probably raise as much controversy for different reasons.   

But if, as you say, the Peace Prize has long since degraded then why do we care about the Literature Prize?   I mean should we try to save its credibility by condemning the decision, or should we now discard it as well?  Just asking.
 

 
This is a confused defence. If the lit prize is roobish too as old Boycs would have said, why does it matter so much to Dylan fans that he got the 'recognition'? If you really believed the Nobel lost all credibility regardless of category, you wouldn't care about people offering reasons, logical reasons at that and not "cuz Dylan sucks" arguments, why he shouldn't have been given the prize. It's a valid argument to make and unless the lit prize does indeed jump the shark in the future and give it to um Chetan Bhagat, the argument will probably be repeated years from now as well. Remember there were people who thought the objections to Obama getting the prize were narrow minded and nitpicky.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 01:30
^ I think I just said that.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 01:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


If the award had been given to a different singer-songwriter or lyricist would those defending Dylan be so vocal?

I don't believe any lyricist should be awarded with the Nobel.

But the one that gets closer to that status is precisely Dylan.

I'm more worried for the precedent, next year may be Cat Stevens or Sir Elton John and that would worry me even more.
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 02:28
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^Probably not.  That's the point.

As to song lyrics, I agree that, as a form, they are not poetry or literature.   But the award goes to Dylan's contributions to the language arts, not as a writer per se.  He is not a writer, but by that standard JK Rowling is more deserving of the award which though perhaps true, would probably raise as much controversy for different reasons.    

But if, as you say, the Peace Prize has long since degraded then why do we care about the Literature Prize?   I mean should we try to save its credibility by condemning the decision, or should we now discard it as well?  Just asking.
In all arts awards the "more deserving" will always be contentious as this is a subjective measure but when assessing like for like there is at least some element of commonality were that subjective comparison can be made, in the broader sense of comparing like for similar then there is still some degree of aesthetic comparison but once a comparative is no longer possible then the rationale of one artist being more deserving than another becomes meaningless. That is when it ceases to be contentious and becomes controversial. In that regard, awarding a Literature to JK Rowling or EL James would be contentious and would provoke controversy, but it wouldn't be controversial as such because they are both novelists. (Yeah, I know Dylan has written a book, but that wouldn't win any prizes anywhere). As the Nobel Literature prize as widened its eligibility criteria (which is the controversial bit) every "language artist" can be considered (and that's the contentious bit).

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


If the award had been given to a different singer-songwriter or lyricist would those defending Dylan be so vocal?

I don't believe any lyricist should be awarded with the Nobel.

But the one that gets closer to that status is precisely Dylan.

I'm more worried for the precedent, next year may be Cat Stevens or Sir Elton John and that would worry me even more.
I agree on every point except the last. Pandora's Box has now been opened, so all lyricists are eligible regardless of what you anyone thinks of any particular song-writer (see above).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 02:50
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

In all arts awards the "more deserving" will always be contentious as this is a subjective measure but when assessing like for like there is at least some element of commonality were that subjective comparison can be made, in the broader sense of comparing like for similar then there is still some degree of aesthetic comparison but once a comparative is no longer possible then the rationale of one artist being more deserving than another becomes meaningless. That is when it ceases to be contentious and becomes controversial. In that regard, awarding a Literature to JK Rowling or EL James would be contentious and would provoke controversy, but it wouldn't be controversial as such because they are both novelists. (Yeah, I know Dylan has written a book, but that wouldn't win any prizes anywhere). As the Nobel Literature prize as widened its eligibility criteria (which is the controversial bit) every "language artist" can be considered (and that's the contentious bit).

Good point, though I suspect the next Nobel Lit award will most certainly not go to a songwriter, especially after the backlash.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 07:26
This opens the precedent for all future Nobel prizes. Next year they could award the Nobel in Chemistry to Keith Richards (which would be at least somewhat more deserving).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 07:33
^And Medicine as well for reviving dead tissue.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2016 at 07:38
Congrats Bob Dylan for your lifetime achievement.
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